New Vote o Video from Local Presidents

[TWU informer]

The extension that you spoke of was in 2007. If Owens got in office in 2009, and Peterson in 2011. Tell me how it was their fault what the previous Presidents did?

Facts do not seem to matter to members like CIO.

And the extension had such an Eagle ASM scope change that the Fleet Service clerks would have taken an major loss.

Of course now we have that change and he advocates yes again.
He only wants to save his relatives jobs, everyone else he will sacrifice.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Facts do not seem to matter to members like CIO.

And the extension had such an Eagle ASM scope change that the Fleet Service clerks would have taken an major loss.

Of course now we have that change and he advocates yes again.
He only wants to save his relatives jobs, everyone else he will sacrifice.

I am wondering why he doesn't blame his local for not bringing it back on a roll call vote? It would of worked just as well in 2007 as it did in 2012.

 

[Bob Owens]

At the expense of being accused of stirring the pot, I would still like to see how EVERY local voted on last LBO...

Why have we not seen those numbers? Who is being tweaked? They are down to changing the minds of 600-700 memebers.
I would hope that the 2000 members who were too busy or didn't care enough to vote on the last one begin to care.

The Tulsa local is vehemently urging a YES vote trying to instill fear into its members that the once the line becomes the majority that they are somehow doomed.

I would too, however the International decided not to release those numbers to us, said they didnt have a breakdown.

Interesting because Reams comments in NY were trying to pin the blame on this bad deal on Tulsa. Over at LGA I was told that he said that we on the line should vote for it because then the company could outsource work at the bases. He then said at JFK that the deal is the result of the fact that with 6500 guys that OH controls whats discussed, and that the company wants its OH mechanics to accept what OH mechanics at other carriers get and line mechanics get what line mechanics get at other carriers but insinuated that it was the base dominated unions fault that the line was getting screwed. They had two meetings at JFK and were respectfully but not warmly recognized and clearly informed of where we stood. Even our Company Men were outspoken and direct. Later I was informed that Evie Rodriguez (Director from ORD) had told one of our guys at the Al Blackman ceremony that the line should vote to pass this because with the language changes the company was going to outsource so much OH that the Line would be the majority by the time, he didnt buy it. I was approached by a member of management who said "you guys need to seperate from the base". So, after reading some of the posts on this sight it appears that their strategy is to tell the base guys they have to vote yes because the line guys will screw them in abrogation if they dont and a YES vote is the only way to save jobs and they are telling the line guys that they need to vote yes so the company can screw the base guys and make the line the majority and bring them back up to their rightful place among their peers in the industry. So which way is it? Classic divide and conquer

Some are saying that if we vote this down there will be massive job losses, and yes, over the next several years thats probably true, but the same is true if we vote yes. Either way it wont happen next month, or even next year, it will take time, and as time goes on attrition will eat up most of the reductions. If we vote yes we give them six years to outsource as much as they can while we stay at the bottom of the industry. What about the wage adjustment? Well that only addresses the hourly rate, when other forms of pay are factored in we would still be at the bottom because of our vacation, holiday and sick time allotments.

Lets go back to 1995, AA posted a nice profit that year yet we were hoodwinked into accepting a six year deal. We were told not to worry about the end loaded 6 year 6.5% contract where we introduced SRPs because the Me Too Clause would get us whatever the pilots however the company knew that we would never see a dime from the me too clause when they negotiated deal, betrayed by both the people who pay us and the people we pay.

I forget the year but lets look at Supplimental Medical, a company plan where we could buy extra medical coverage, with a $5 million cap there wasnt much concern as far as active employee coverage but the coverage as far as retiree medical was not very much, so the company, with the support of the people we pay urged us to buy supplimental. twenty years later, after amassing around $78 million the company deceides to cancel the plan and keep the money. Tax laws require that they can only use the funds that are left over to pay their obligations for employee benefits with those funds, but that means that millions that would have otherwise been withdrawn from the general fund now dont have to, so guys who had paid in for 20 or more years becuase they were told that if they wanted the supplimental to the retiree medical they would have to pay for it when it was offered, they could not buy it when they retiree, simply lost their money. The company claimed they could do that because they said it was a term plan-the people we pay did nothing.

2003, we were told that if we gave concessions outside of BK that the courts would look favorably on it when the company filed. Well they were wrong, the courts didnt care.

2003, we were told "dont worry, we will get it all back in 2006 with the early opener clause", well its 2012 and we still didnt get any of it back, in fact the people we pay are now telling us we should agree to give up a lot more than anyone else ever gave up.

When will we ever learn? We have management telling guys on the line they need to vote yes so they can outsource enough OH to make the line the majority and we have either management or union in Tulsa saying that they need to vote YES because the line wants to screw Tulsa. LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE VOTING ON!!! Is this what you expecvted when you enterred this industry? Do you find it acceptable to no just be on the bottom but to be so far below your peers that one would think you have a vdifferent type of occupation? Considering the past we have why would any of us believe either story? Lets stand together, hopefully with the Pilots and Flight Attendants, Vote No and tell both the company and the courts if need be that under any circumstances what the company is attempting to do her is unacceptable!!.

 

[Overspeed]

.
The membership voted for these individuals in the video to negotiate/represent the membership. The majority of the negotiators and experters/attorneys are consistently telling us to accept the offer. Even Owens by his own admission says the "me to clause" could/would/did come to the same conclusion after this last round of talks.

Ever since Owens and the others have been here they have yet to be on a winning team. If I understand correctly AA offered us a 2 year extension when we first started section 6 openers with 25,000 to 28,000 thousand dollars more money for each member and they choose not to allow us the members to vote. They were afraid the members would vote yes!!!

How many times do you listen to these individuals before you start to understand they are clueless on how to negotiate!!! I did not hear one thing that indicated they could do any better if we vote no. But, they did say we would be a lot worse off if we do vote no!!

They have so much hatred and have spent their whole life tearing everyone and everything down. They really don't understand how to build an effective team when it really matters to the membership!!!!


Do you think just maybe the 9 individuals have a better understanding, then the 7 who voted no and then came out against the 9? Can you tell me one instance where Owens/Peterson/Pike have been on a winning team?

If they think they deserve better why haven't they just gone to work for one of the other Airlines? Could it be? They have burnt so many bridges no one will hire them???? I know they have consistently burnt bridges here at AA!!!!!!


How many times have these individuals cried Wolf? Don't blame me, its not my fault!!!

Yes!!! It is Bobs/Pettersons/Pikes fault!!! When are you going to stand up and tell us you screwed up!!!!


InSolidarity,


CIO

While I agree with you on the misguided and out of touch with reality leadership of Owens, Peterson, Ruiz, Rojas, and Pike they are not all to blame for the 2008 extension. I am of the opinion that not bringing that back was the right choice. These guys, except Peterson, were all involved in the recommendation not to accept the May 2010 TA. That would have put us in a great position for BK. We would have all received additional pay due to the higher top out rate and would be entering BK at a higher rate (number two in the industry even now and they are all crying about we will be the lowest, maybe they should have recommended a yes in retrospect). For two years we would have also been receiving full day SK pay and two weeks minimum VC, and 8 holidays at 2X.

Now they are all crying, except Ruiz he is worried about eating Turd Sandwich Deluxe's now, when they own the last recommendation. They said we would be able to keep negotiating for a better deal yet Bob says on this blog and the video we are going to get screwed on jobs anyway. But he also says we are in great position because the industry is losing mechanics yet he says in the video that new aircraft don't require as much maintenance. So if there is less maintenance then there is less need for mechanics therefore, no shortage. Come on Bob, connect your stories. Maybe you should have sent Peterson, Ruiz, and Rojas better scripts to read from.

These guys have a poor record when it comes to their predictions. They said BK was a scare tactic, well it wasn't. They said there was more money on the table for us to get, well it's tied up in BK court now. They said if we vote no we eventually will get a better deal well each one keeps getting worse, when is the better deal? 2016? Ouch, can we all wait that long under today's wage rates in the CBA? The one that may or may not get abrogated? Bob is already conceding we lost retiree medical and the pension. All things we were going to keep if we voted no on the May 2010 TA.

Bob, you were wrong and you are still wrong. We are not going to get a better deal in BK. Time to admit you gave bad advice and move on.

 

[iluvaa]

Hey overspeed a little while back you mentioned the TWU/IBT alliance can you tell us a little more about that

 

[Bob Owens]

.
The membership voted for these individuals in the video to negotiate/represent the membership. The majority of the negotiators and experters/attorneys are consistently telling us to accept the offer. Even Owens by his own admission says the "me to clause" could/would/did come to the same conclusion after this last round of talks.

Ever since Owens and the others have been here they have yet to be on a winning team. If I understand correctly AA offered us a 2 year extension when we first started section 6 openers with 25,000 to 28,000 thousand dollars more money for each member and they choose not to allow us the members to vote. They were afraid the members would vote yes!!!

How many times do you listen to these individuals before you start to understand they are clueless on how to negotiate!!! I did not hear one thing that indicated they could do any better if we vote no. But, they did say we would be a lot worse off if we do vote no!!

They have so much hatred and have spent their whole life tearing everyone and everything down. They really don't understand how to build an effective team when it really matters to the membership!!!!


Do you think just maybe the 9 individuals have a better understanding, then the 7 who voted no and then came out against the 9? Can you tell me one instance where Owens/Peterson/Pike have been on a winning team?

Its unfortunate but building a winning team takes time but we are getting there.
The opposition 2010
Zimmerman Voted out by members
Woodward Voted out by members
GilboyVoted out by members
Luis Voted out by members
Griffiths Voted out by members
Bernal Voted out by members
Todd Voted out by members but still in negotiations, go figure?

Our team from 2010
Pike-re-elected by his members
McMahon-re-elected by his members
Ruiz- re-elected by his members
Argentina- re-elected by members, hopefully comes back to our side
Owens- re-elected by members.

New team members on our side:
Peterson-replaced Zimmerman
Rojas-replaced Woodward
McCormick-replaced Gilboy
Suarez-replaced Bernal

There are others but those guys usually dont get invloved in the debates much or are Fleet Service clerks that only show up when the International needs their YES vote. But as you can see the electoral process has put the Five Hub locals and AFW on the same page, we've picked up four. Amongst the YES voters several others also lost their reelection bids but the replacements vote the same way. Among the NO voters none were voted out.

See the trend, the members vote out the YES men and vote in people who say they agree with us, Cirri, Hewitt and Carlisle all opposed the concessions back in 2010 when they were elected but now favor bringing back something worse than what they used to get into office. Sometimes people change.

If they think they deserve better why haven't they just gone to work for one of the other Airlines?

So you are saying that we dont deserve what UAL and other carriers pay their mechanics? Why not?

Could it be? They have burnt so many bridges no one will hire them???? I know they have consistently burnt bridges here at AA!!!!!

Yep, sure we burnt bridges because unlike some (such as youself) we arent using the trust of the people who put us into office to buy favors from management or appointments in the International for ourselves at their expense.

 

[Bob Owens]

These guys have a poor record when it comes to their predictions. They said BK was a scare tactic, well it wasn't. They said there was more money on the table for us to get, well it's tied up in BK court now.

You have made this claim numerous times, still waiting for the proof.

They said if we vote no we eventually will get a better deal well each one keeps getting worse, when is the better deal?

So you are saying that LBO-2 is worse than LBO1 and LBO 1 is worse than the MAR 22 Term?

 

[Buck]

CIO and Overspeed need to quit hiding behind their aliases, they are just keyboard soldiers.

I still have a six pack, of Budweiser, I think.

 

[NYer]

I've been here 22 years and its been nothing but givebacks.Oh wait, the one decent contract was when amfa was about to run the TWU out of town.

Every group in American got a good contract that time. AMFA was resposible for all of that? Wow.

 

[NYer]

I would too, however the International decided not to release those numbers to us, said they didnt have a breakdown.

Interesting because Reams comments in NY were trying to pin the blame on this bad deal on Tulsa. Over at LGA I was told that he said that we on the line should vote for it because then the company could outsource work at the bases. He then said at JFK that the deal is the result of the fact that with 6500 guys that OH controls whats discussed, and that the company wants its OH mechanics to accept what OH mechanics at other carriers get and line mechanics get what line mechanics get at other carriers but insinuated that it was the base dominated unions fault that the line was getting screwed. They had two meetings at JFK and were respectfully but not warmly recognized and clearly informed of where we stood. Even our Company Men were outspoken and direct. Later I was informed that Evie Rodriguez (Director from ORD) had told one of our guys at the Al Blackman ceremony that the line should vote to pass this because with the language changes the company was going to outsource so much OH that the Line would be the majority by the time, he didnt buy it. I was approached by a member of management who said "you guys need to seperate from the base". So, after reading some of the posts on this sight it appears that their strategy is to tell the base guys they have to vote yes because the line guys will screw them in abrogation if they dont and a YES vote is the only way to save jobs and they are telling the line guys that they need to vote yes so the company can screw the base guys and make the line the majority and bring them back up to their rightful place among their peers in the industry. So which way is it? Classic divide and conquer

Some are saying that if we vote this down there will be massive job losses, and yes, over the next several years thats probably true, but the same is true if we vote yes. Either way it wont happen next month, or even next year, it will take time, and as time goes on attrition will eat up most of the reductions. If we vote yes we give them six years to outsource as much as they can while we stay at the bottom of the industry. What about the wage adjustment? Well that only addresses the hourly rate, when other forms of pay are factored in we would still be at the bottom because of our vacation, holiday and sick time allotments.

Lets go back to 1995, AA posted a nice profit that year yet we were hoodwinked into accepting a six year deal. We were told not to worry about the end loaded 6 year 6.5% contract where we introduced SRPs because the Me Too Clause would get us whatever the pilots however the company knew that we would never see a dime from the me too clause when they negotiated deal, betrayed by both the people who pay us and the people we pay.

I forget the year but lets look at Supplimental Medical, a company plan where we could buy extra medical coverage, with a $5 million cap there wasnt much concern as far as active employee coverage but the coverage as far as retiree medical was not very much, so the company, with the support of the people we pay urged us to buy supplimental. twenty years later, after amassing around $78 million the company deceides to cancel the plan and keep the money. Tax laws require that they can only use the funds that are left over to pay their obligations for employee benefits with those funds, but that means that millions that would have otherwise been withdrawn from the general fund now dont have to, so guys who had paid in for 20 or more years becuase they were told that if they wanted the supplimental to the retiree medical they would have to pay for it when it was offered, they could not buy it when they retiree, simply lost their money. The company claimed they could do that because they said it was a term plan-the people we pay did nothing.

2003, we were told that if we gave concessions outside of BK that the courts would look favorably on it when the company filed. Well they were wrong, the courts didnt care.

2003, we were told "dont worry, we will get it all back in 2006 with the early opener clause", well its 2012 and we still didnt get any of it back, in fact the people we pay are now telling us we should agree to give up a lot more than anyone else ever gave up.

When will we ever learn? We have management telling guys on the line they need to vote yes so they can outsource enough OH to make the line the majority and we have either management or union in Tulsa saying that they need to vote YES because the line wants to screw Tulsa. LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE VOTING ON!!! Is this what you expecvted when you enterred this industry? Do you find it acceptable to no just be on the bottom but to be so far below your peers that one would think you have a vdifferent type of occupation? Considering the past we have why would any of us believe either story? Lets stand together, hopefully with the Pilots and Flight Attendants, Vote No and tell both the company and the courts if need be that under any circumstances what the company is attempting to do her is unacceptable!!.

Nice. Letting a VP influence a fight between us and OH. Very nice.

 

[Hopeful]

What's funny is that the Tulsa president is also pushing a Yes vote for the exact same reason.

"THE LINE GUYS ARE COMING, THE LINE GUYS ARE COMING!!!!!!!!!"

 

[AC Tynker]

What about Lawyers and an Economist saying there is a 99% chance there will be no additional offers ?

 

[Rogallo]

"THE LINE GUYS ARE COMING, THE LINE GUYS ARE COMING!!!!!!!!!"

And they're 'MAD AS HELL'..!!!

 

[767 mechanic]

.
The membership voted for these individuals in the video to negotiate/represent the membership. The majority of the negotiators and experters/attorneys are consistently telling us to accept the offer. Even Owens by his own admission says the "me to clause" could/would/did come to the same conclusion after this last round of talks.

Ever since Owens and the others have been here they have yet to be on a winning team. If I understand correctly AA offered us a 2 year extension when we first started section 6 openers with 25,000 to 28,000 thousand dollars more money for each member and they choose not to allow us the members to vote. They were afraid the members would vote yes!!!

How many times do you listen to these individuals before you start to understand they are clueless on how to negotiate!!! I did not hear one thing that indicated they could do any better if we vote no. But, they did say we would be a lot worse off if we do vote no!!

They have so much hatred and have spent their whole life tearing everyone and everything down. They really don't understand how to build an effective team when it really matters to the membership!!!!


Do you think just maybe the 9 individuals have a better understanding, then the 7 who voted no and then came out against the 9? Can you tell me one instance where Owens/Peterson/Pike have been on a winning team?

If they think they deserve better why haven't they just gone to work for one of the other Airlines? Could it be? They have burnt so many bridges no one will hire them???? I know they have consistently burnt bridges here at AA!!!!!!


How many times have these individuals cried Wolf? Don't blame me, its not my fault!!!

Yes!!! It is Bobs/Pettersons/Pikes fault!!! When are you going to stand up and tell us you screwed up!!!!


InSolidarity,


CIO

Hey whisper you sound alittle louder here than you do in person. If you are saying that being a member of the twboo you are a loser you are right in more ways than you know and for once I will have to agree with you 100%

 

[Ghost tech]

Some of you have or were in the military. Do you not find it strange that AA gave us LBO2. Then a day or two later stated how much money they were making. They are using our own anger against Us. They know it will make most if not all mechanics mad. Once you become mad all reasoning goes out the door. If this last offer is voted down, who really wins? The judge won't care that they offered 15%. This 5 year contract has turned out to be a nine year one. How does the mechanic benefit? The company will get everything they want from a no vote. After the fall out from the base layoffs, the company will probably look at each line stations performs. Then determine which one they out source. I look forward to the feed back and no my feelings won't be hurt by any harsh words.