NMB Speaks: We Have an Election! ALPA/USAPA Topic for 2/19-26

[AAA73Pilot]

nicoprite.

Nicoprite? I have to add that to my vocabulary. Awesome

 

[N924PS]

I used it because it fits. If I were really interested in attaching myself to a nipple I'd get more involved in ALPA. How long have you been flying? Sounds like a long time if you came from PSA. Pretty silly that you don't know that PILOTS ARE ALWAYS BLAMED until the true cause of an accident is found. It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist from ALPA to determine that the pilots weren't to blame. I'm a trained accident investigator myself, and could even offer those services to USAPA, even though it's been a while since I've used that skill set. All it takes is an honest, open approach to safety, and ALPA DOES NOT have a monopoly on that. APA SWAPA and others ALL have their own safety and legal departments, very effective ones, I might add.

You are, of course correct. They are mature departments, Southwest since 1971, and APA since the early 60's.

Do you think USAPA can provide this level of expertise if the unthinkable happens?

http://www.avweb.com/other/us427alp.html

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Do you think USAPA can provide this level of expertise if the unthinkable happens?

YES

 

[nostradamus]

I have served on ALPA commitees over the years and supported the PHL-PIT-CLT reps (pre-Lance).

My reps represented the will of it's constituency to the Merger Committee. A negotiated settlement did not happen so they agreed to binding arbitration. The result was the Nicolau Award.

I wasn't "given" my date of hire. It was result of then ALPA merger policy, circa 1987.

Weak answer, nicoprite.

"You were given date of hire, circa 1987." What is right and what is wrong. Should you be judged by your circa. Is that a verb from the word circumcision. You are the poster boy of what is wrong with alpa.

 

[N924PS]

Your facts are a little off. Capt. Jim G. (ret.) from the TRAINING DEPT. spearheaded the investigation and discovered the real reasons. Not ALPA safety since Jim was not on the ALPA safety committee. He also discovered the compartmentalized nature of Boeing that allowed this to happen. I.e. the smoking gun if you will. So yes I believe the same people of pilots helping pilots will continue.

The activism you are so amazed at, is people like me who witnessed ALPA's modus operandi. Discredit the messenger. A lot of very capable people said enough was enough and stepped back. Now these people are stepping forward in hopes of making a real change.

I am amazed only at the LACK of activism until the Nicolau Award reared it's ugly head last May.

This in spite of losing the pension (with no membership vote) and LOA 93.

Are you not guilty of discrediting the messenger as well? Every time someone has a contrary or non USAPA aligned comment (especially if they are an ACPC member) you come out with guns blazing.

Talk to retired Captain John Cox about the details of the US427 accident. I'm sure it was a collaborative effort from the company, ALPA, and IAM and NTSB to find the cause of this crash.

I don't doubt that pilots will always help pilots, regardless of representation. But ALPA at this point has better resources at the moment.

 

[nostradamus]

I am amazed only at the LACK of activism until the Nicolau Award reared it's ugly head last May.

This in spite of losing the pension (with no membership vote) and LOA 93.

Are you not guilty of discrediting the messenger as well? Every time someone has a contrary or non USAPA aligned comment (especially if they are an ACPC member) you come out with guns blazing.

Talk to retired Captain John Cox about the details of the US427 accident. I'm sure it was a collaborative effort from the company, ALPA, and IAM and NTSB to find the cause of this crash.

I don't doubt that pilots will always help pilots, regardless of representation. But ALPA at this point has better resources at the moment.

You have yours at the moment and that is seniority that you got as a psa pilot, nicoprite, I am going to enjoy being on a trip with you.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I am amazed only at the LACK of activism until the Nicolau Award reared it's ugly head last May.

This in spite of losing the pension (with no membership vote) and LOA 93.

Are you not guilty of discrediting the messenger as well? Every time someone has a contrary or non USAPA aligned comment (especially if they are an ACPC member) you come out with guns blazing.

Talk to retired Captain John Cox about the details of the US427 accident. I'm sure it was a collaborative effort from the company, ALPA, and IAM and NTSB to find the cause of this crash.

I don't doubt that pilots will always help pilots, regardless of representation. But ALPA at this point has better resources at the moment.

I remember 427. So does EVERY OTHER 737 pilot since. Rather than forcing Boeing to fix the problem, ALPA allowed a new "procedure" to be developed, requiring unloading the aircraft, having someone reach above (way above) their heads or across cockpit to turn off the offending flight control system, then recover from the unusual attitude. Yea, that was a really successful ALPA effort, despite subsequent issues on other aircraft (the "Bee" airplane parked in RIC for months comes to mind). Pilots save the day and the profits again! Yep, safety is ALPA's number one concern!

I'm done venting on this subject. I haven't seen anything but a bunch of emails and letters from ALPA's shills that are afraid to lose a paycheck (and a darned good one, at our expense) or a paycheck for their buddies. APA, SWAPA and several others do a far better job, get far better contracts for their members and have ALL of the resources that ALPA does.

 

[N924PS]

Weak answer, nicoprite.

"You were given date of hire, circa 1987." What is right and what is wrong. Should you be judged by your circa. Is that a verb from the word circumcision. You are the poster boy of what is wrong with alpa.

And I believe you were given YOUR date of hire under the same policy.

 

[nostradamus]

And I believe you were given YOUR date of hire under the same policy.

You are weak and you are a coward sir.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I am amazed only at the LACK of activism until the Nicolau Award reared it's ugly head last May.

This in spite of losing the pension (with no membership vote) and LOA 93.

Are you not guilty of discrediting the messenger as well? Every time someone has a contrary or non USAPA aligned comment (especially if they are an ACPC member) you come out with guns blazing.

Talk to retired Captain John Cox about the details of the US427 accident. I'm sure it was a collaborative effort from the company, ALPA, and IAM and NTSB to find the cause of this crash.

I don't doubt that pilots will always help pilots, regardless of representation. But ALPA at this point has better resources at the moment.

No, Nic just brought it all out and ALPA's subsequent failures fanned the winds of change, especially the EC resolutions. Each successive failure just added more "converts" away from ALPA. As for activism again. The core group of USAPA supporters started back in '92 in the failed card drive. I being one of them.

Sorry, your original message was not correct. I know JC. I find/found him to be very capable. However, ALPA was going in the wrong direction until Capt. Jim G. found the evidence, Boeing's malfeasance and cover-up. Then ALPA came in with both barrels.

As for the other non-votes, I rest my case. USAPA's voting participation will be a breath of fresh air.

 

[N924PS]

You are weak and you are a coward sir.

I think you have used the same words to disparage me before.

Rather sophomoric for a man of your age and experience isn't it?

 

[nostradamus]

I think you have used the same words to disparage me before.

Rather sophomoric for a man of your age and experience isn't it?

We will figure all this out on the line one day sweet cheeks.

 

[dariencc]

When you guys jump on 924PS it always comes around to date of hire and how he got his. That tells me two things, first that despite your protestations otherwise, this is 99% driven by the nic award rather than what is wrong with alpa. Secondly, it tells me you are fixated on that and thinking with your little head without regard to the multitude of ramifications. For example the resources and expertise of ALPA and men like JC for 5050 and the Pennsylvania tragedy.

I find it interesting that you are referring to the 5050 accident and the role of JC and the Alpa safety structure in the investigation of that event. Before I go further, I would ask the following. If you have any doubt as to the veracity of my post, would you accept my offer to get you in touch with JC or any of the other Alpa staff that were personally involved in the aftermath of that tragedy? Any of these gentlemen that were on scene (including JC) would be able to back me up.

Since you are a regular reader of this board, I am sure that you are aware of the recent thread where your highly ethical colleague Aquageen73s declared that the 5050 pilots were guilty of the "treacherous" crime of leaving the scene of an accident. This disgusting lie was met with some amusement by several of your fellow West posters, though I will note that you were not among them. Since the actions of the 5050 crew were done in consultation with Alpa attorneys and investigators (including JC), how does one conclude that the loss of their services would be a negative to our pilot group if the accusations of Aquagreen are true? After all, if JC and the rest of the Alpa safety structure actually encouraged the kind of criminal behavior alleged by your fellow Westies, wouldn't we all be better off without them?

The East pilots already know the history of 5050, and the garbage of your jailhouse lawyer Aquagreen has been emailed far and wide. Sorry, but I don't think Alpa is going to get very far with their JC strategy, and you can thank this website for that.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I find it interesting that you are referring to the 5050 accident and the role of JC and the Alpa safety structure in the investigation of that event.............

The East pilots already know the history of 5050, and the garbage of your jailhouse lawyer Aquagreen has been emailed far and wide. Sorry, but I don't think Alpa is going to get very far with their JC strategy, and you can thank this website for that.

Well said.

 

[Low&away]

Oops!