Non-Rev Boarding priority poll

[fly with US]

rjh, a lot of pilots commute, and for many different reasons. I have always hated that "their choice" hogwash. You don't know their situation.

To whoever said that the non-rev system shouldn't be looked on from the commuter's view....isn't that the most important non-rev there is?

BoeingBoy, the problem with that system would be that it would be way too easy to cheat the system.

I still can't believe we are having a fight over such a long accepted thing called seniority. Sure, it may not be fair to the newbie, but the senior guy has earned that right. Or should every employee make the same amount to be "fair"? Since when do we live in a perfectly fair world?

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy, the problem with that system would be that it would be way too easy to cheat the system.

I knew that I should have put a smiley face in there somewhere.

Though, it's been said by those on each side that the other system is too easy to cheat...

Jim

 

[rjh]

I still can't believe we are having a fight over such a long accepted thing called seniority. Sure, it may not be fair to the newbie, but the senior guy has earned that right. Or should every employee make the same amount to be "fair"? Since when do we live in a perfectly fair world?

There are many employees in the company and industry that have not used seniority at all--mostly people htat work in the office.

As I've said, I see the the arguments for seniority; but many on that side won't even take the time to see and acknowledge that there are very valid arguments for check-in time.

 

[twambassador]

I know you are not rolling in the dough! You have to understand that when this company offers info sessions to rampers, f/as, rez and gat agents they push the flight benefits as something glorious. Many work for flight benefits or medical benefits because the pay has been much lower for HP than other jobs, expecially here in PHX. For example, it will take 2 years to get gat, rez agents up to pay parity with US east agents. Some have been with HP for 4 years and do not make 8.75 an hour. Its always been the flight bennies(or medical). Make it harder to board and you will have a mass exodus. We are already losing enough agents due to the merger. Work loads and info has increased tremendously. Amex Trvl is hiring at almost double the pay giving 3 weeks vacation and 1 week is mandatory of vacation in a location away, with all accoms paid and positive seats. I know another good 5 agents walking over there. HR for Amex told a recent applicant, the merger was the best thing that ever happened to them! They are getting good motivated employees who appreciated their new work environment and love the $ 3000 sign on bonus. Just showing how this may affect staffing. Again,JMO.

That is the key issue in this meger. The culture of HP employees is very different than US. In general, US employees view their jobs as a career, where at HP, because of the very low pay, it's viewed either as a stepping stone to something else, or as a job to get free flights and insurance. The amount of trades and giving away of hours in the Customer Service ranks at HP is tremendous, because to a lot of people this isn't how they make a living. So, to a lot of employees at HP, they could care less about seniority because the majorty aren't going to be their long enough. So for them first come /first serve is a lot better propostion. The Seniority culture at HP is very minimal.

 

[fly with US]

As I've said, I see the the arguments for seniority; but many on that side won't even take the time to see and acknowledge that there are very valid arguments for check-in time.

Perhaps because they believe in seniority so much. 😉

Personally, I have given some thought, and I have tried to see the other side, but I TRULY believe seniority is the way to go. Just my humble opinion though.

 

[rjh]

Perhaps because they believe in seniority so much. 😉

Personally, I have given some thought, and I have tried to see the other side, but I TRULY believe seniority is the way to go. Just my humble opinion though.

And I respect that opinion 😀

 

[fly with US]

And I respect that opinion 😀

Liar. 😉

 

[AIRWOMAN]

That is the key issue in this meger. The culture of HP employees is very different than US. In general, US employees view their jobs as a career, where at HP, because of the very low pay, it's viewed either as a stepping stone to something else, or as a job to get free flights and insurance. The amount of trades and giving away of hours in the Customer Service ranks at HP is tremendous, because to a lot of people this isn't how they make a living. So, to a lot of employees at HP, they could care less about seniority because the majorty aren't going to be their long enough. So for them first come /first serve is a lot better propostion. The Seniority culture at HP is very minimal.

Yes, the culture is different between east and west. But your generalization about HP not considering their jobs as a career is too general. There are quite a few "career" people at HP and jobs are not all very low pay, especially in the more technical areas.......the only thing is, their career has not had the chance to be as long and tenured as some east employees. And personally, I would like to see a wider list/check in window than the 4 hours because of the increased time zones the new airline flies and I like the idea of an integrated "seniority" list.....the top seniority east matched with the top seniority west or something along those lines. And to have the retirees included in that seniority list somehow.

 

[Awa Contract]

I still favor 1st come first served

 

[rjh]

Liar. 😉

awwww .I'm hurt! 😎

i repsect everyone's opinions ..and I don't care if your opinion is to not belive me ..hehehehehe 😀

 

[USstew23]

rjh, a lot of pilots commute, and for many different reasons. I have always hated that "their choice" hogwash. You don't know their situation.

To whoever said that the non-rev system shouldn't be looked on from the commuter's view....isn't that the most important non-rev there is?

BoeingBoy, the problem with that system would be that it would be way too easy to cheat the system.

I still can't believe we are having a fight over such a long accepted thing called seniority. Sure, it may not be fair to the newbie, but the senior guy has earned that right. Or should every employee make the same amount to be "fair"? Since when do we live in a perfectly fair world?

Yes and the senior people have a thing called bidding and making alot more money than those of us that are "junior" (not that we have such a thing at East anymore). No offense but some of us are kind of tired of hearing about this "right" that the senior people have. I used to commute and it was a choice. Now I made the CHOICE to live in my base. Oh well it doesn't matter anyway as long as they go back to the way it used to be with the jumpseat. (Seniority up to 35min prior to dep. then first come first serve). That may be mute too since everything is an RJ now. I have all of the respect in the world for the senior folks (they've been through alot) but at some point we ALL have the right to something.

 

[UPNAWAY]

I still can't believe we are having a fight over such a long accepted thing called seniority.

:down: Why does everyone worship the idol of seniority?
It has ruined this industry and most other unions (our school systems). It is a failed ideal. It is not helpful to you as the employee in fact it hurts you. All that aside most benifits are not tied to seniority. Go to the Dr and wait behind someone more senior?

 

[soc-hpjester]

Fly with US ---- You say the commuter is the most important non-rev. I think not. In crew skd they are loathed for all the late shows, no shows and delays they cause. Live in your base and check in 4 hours prior when non-reving.

 

[SpinDoc]

I still can't believe we are having a fight over such a long accepted thing called seniority.

:down: Why does everyone worship the idol of seniority?
It has ruined this industry and most other unions (our school systems). It is a failed ideal. It is not helpful to you as the employee in fact it hurts you. All that aside most benifits are not tied to seniority. Go to the Dr and wait behind someone more senior?

Dude:

That is an excellent analogy. Flight benefits are just that, benefits, and should be treated as such. They are not a god-given right, nor is the idea of seniority. Union seniority is a concept that is to be used within the framework of the contract, in other words, union members have negotiated the concept for their members to determine schedules, vacation time, and other contract stipulations. To my knowledge, flight benefits have never been guaranteed by a union contract, and the company reserves the right to determine the boarding priority, based on any criteria they want.

Personally, in 9 years of service, I have been bumped off a flight only once due to a seniority issue, and I fly somewhere about once a month. I plan accordingly and study the loads. If I see that my seniority will not hold, I make other transportation arrangements, or change my travel plans altogether. Proper planning goes a long way toward ensuring a successful NRSA experience.

If we want to be fair to everyone, which I believe is the best way to go, then all NRSA travel should be based on check-in time, and all connecting NRSA should have priority over originating NRSA. But hey, it's only my opinion.

 

[fly with US]

Seniority a failed idea? Haha, I think not. Just look at all the things that are related to seniority.

Hey, I never said that commuters were popoular. But what non-rev does the company care about most, the commuter, or the person going flying for the fun of it?

USstew23, I am just going to guess here and saw you have no family that lives with you. How would you feel if you had to move every 5 years? Is that fair? Commuting has long been a privilege of the airlines, so why all of sudden are they looked down upon. Plus, you can't expect every crew member to live on base. At CO in EWR, 70-80% of the pilots commute.