soc-hpjester
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Commuters shouldn't be a factor in any decision to go with senority or first come first serve.
Non-Rev Boarding priority poll
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BoeingBoy
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PhxMama,
You're not the lone defender - just seems that way....
Ironic, isn't it, that this pilot isn't ticked off that the J/S could be taken by junior pilots who got dibs because it's a first-come first-serve system. Or ticked at himself/herself because he/she didn't list for the jumpseat when the 7 day window opened. Only ticked off because some "junior scum" denied them their God-given "I'm senior" right to a seat in the back.
From a nearly 27 year seniority point of view - it there's empty seats I have about a 99.8% chance of getting on - I like quite a bit about the HP system. But the most basic reason is truly fairness - everyone has the same chance at getting a seat. What other non-contractual benefit uses seniority to determine access?
I could argue that the 4-hour checkin window is too short - 12 would be better for flight crewmembers with the longer European flights we (the new LCC) now have plus it would eliminate most of the "gotta get up in the middle of the night to list" problem old folks like me could have.
As far a crewmembers, we already have access to mainline aircraft that other non-revs don't have - the J/S's. Plus, at least on the East side, this bestows another benefit that isn't available free to other non-revs - access to F/C. Maybe in the interest of "fairness" we should expand these to include all employees, or close this to all.....
Jim
You're not the lone defender - just seems that way....
Ironic, isn't it, that this pilot isn't ticked off that the J/S could be taken by junior pilots who got dibs because it's a first-come first-serve system. Or ticked at himself/herself because he/she didn't list for the jumpseat when the 7 day window opened. Only ticked off because some "junior scum" denied them their God-given "I'm senior" right to a seat in the back.
From a nearly 27 year seniority point of view - it there's empty seats I have about a 99.8% chance of getting on - I like quite a bit about the HP system. But the most basic reason is truly fairness - everyone has the same chance at getting a seat. What other non-contractual benefit uses seniority to determine access?
I could argue that the 4-hour checkin window is too short - 12 would be better for flight crewmembers with the longer European flights we (the new LCC) now have plus it would eliminate most of the "gotta get up in the middle of the night to list" problem old folks like me could have.
As far a crewmembers, we already have access to mainline aircraft that other non-revs don't have - the J/S's. Plus, at least on the East side, this bestows another benefit that isn't available free to other non-revs - access to F/C. Maybe in the interest of "fairness" we should expand these to include all employees, or close this to all.....
Jim
Flufdriver
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BoeingBoy, with all do respect, after reading some of your responses I sometimes think your after some Nobel Peace Prize award. LOL. You know as well as I do when J/S is taken at least you can use probably the LAST thing we have going for us...senority. Thank you for letting me know about the 7 day in advance booking of the J/S, that works real good for a block holder like yourself...but please tell me how I can book a jump seat seven days in advance on reserve and then they transition you at 2AM to get to base in nine hours. Please tell me how I can book that jump seat in advance like yourself, again being a blockholder. I wasn't born yesterday...it just sounds like you try to make to much out of nothing at times. Also, your very informative answer about j/s and such sounds like the answer coming from someone that will be GONE in a few months. I usually enjoy reading your replies but this one was a bit out of contents. I guess I'll get up at midnight and GUESS what flight I think I might need to get to work next week, come on BB, you know where I'm coming from. Don't play the Knight in Shining Armour role, your getting more and more like our 320driver that we use to humor!
USXboy
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I have a feeling that the new passes will be a mix of DOH and Seniority & the "enhanced" passes will be one and regular non-rev travel will be the other.
So if we look at the present USAirways East system, we all fly as S3's (well, most of us). That is done on a seniority basis. If we get the 2 vacation passes, lets assume it will be S1.
I have a feeling that S1's will be done based on Seniority, and S3's at time of check-in and I have no problem with that. Cause if I really need to get there, I do exactly as I do now... list for my flights, then pull up the XRV list and see where I stand in terms of my seniority. If i think it's going to be tight & I see those other guys are S3's, I'll use my S1 to bump me up.
Btw - I've only known seniority based travel and I'm not sure how I'd do with TOC vs DOH... my DOH sucks, one year seniority... but I can at least plan around it
So if we look at the present USAirways East system, we all fly as S3's (well, most of us). That is done on a seniority basis. If we get the 2 vacation passes, lets assume it will be S1.
I have a feeling that S1's will be done based on Seniority, and S3's at time of check-in and I have no problem with that. Cause if I really need to get there, I do exactly as I do now... list for my flights, then pull up the XRV list and see where I stand in terms of my seniority. If i think it's going to be tight & I see those other guys are S3's, I'll use my S1 to bump me up.
Btw - I've only known seniority based travel and I'm not sure how I'd do with TOC vs DOH... my DOH sucks, one year seniority... but I can at least plan around it
BoeingBoy
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You're right on two counts - I'm not on reserve and I'm soon to be "gone" to 1 step behind active employees. To add a third point that you didn't make, I don't commute by airplane to my base, either, though that's by choice - I could have chased better paying positions around the system but didn't. That could have involved commuting to a reserve position - something I chose not to do precisely because of the hassle of getting back and forth, not to mention the time involved.
So no, I don't really have a dog in this fight. That allows me to look at the "big picture" and not be concerned with what's best for "ME". So no Nobel Peace Prize aspirations here. My opinion is just that - my opinion. It's just as valid as anyone else's - even yours.
Crewmembers, especially pilots, have the luxury of two ways of getting on our flights. Pilots have the third option of J/S'ing on other carriers - something that is only available for a price to other employees - since there's almost no two points in the U.S. that aren't served by carriers other than LCC. To complain about the "unfairness" of one of our available choices, when that is the only free option for most employees, still seems ironic to me.....
Jim
So no, I don't really have a dog in this fight. That allows me to look at the "big picture" and not be concerned with what's best for "ME". So no Nobel Peace Prize aspirations here. My opinion is just that - my opinion. It's just as valid as anyone else's - even yours.
Crewmembers, especially pilots, have the luxury of two ways of getting on our flights. Pilots have the third option of J/S'ing on other carriers - something that is only available for a price to other employees - since there's almost no two points in the U.S. that aren't served by carriers other than LCC. To complain about the "unfairness" of one of our available choices, when that is the only free option for most employees, still seems ironic to me.....
Jim
BoeingBoy
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Like I intimated, everyone has an opinion.....
I watched my brother commute from NC to NYC, DFW, or MIA the last 18 years of his career with AMR - with a first-come/first-served system. He planned accordingly and never said how "unfair" it was. It's non-rev, not the end of the world. Whatever the system ends up being, we'll all live with it or buy tickets....
Jim
I watched my brother commute from NC to NYC, DFW, or MIA the last 18 years of his career with AMR - with a first-come/first-served system. He planned accordingly and never said how "unfair" it was. It's non-rev, not the end of the world. Whatever the system ends up being, we'll all live with it or buy tickets....
Jim
I commuted for 8 years, all by choice. I missed tons of flights due to various reasons. I used to ride the F/A j/s, which used to be given out 30 minutes prior to departure, that way you could get on the aircraft, introduce yourself to the crew and stow your bags. Maybe even offer to work for someone on their last leg. Then they changed the procedure to 10 minutes prior to departure. What a joke that was. All it seemed to do was help the senior F/a's who booked too tight of a connection or was delayed.(too damn bad). And then when you finally got on the plane, you had to check your bags, due to no room. And forget about calling crew sched. to work for someone, it ws too late by then. How about seniority up until 90 minutes prior and then go to first come/first serve? Just an idea. 10 minutes before closing the door, your seniority shouldn't mean crap, no matter what the delay. If you go by that example, if you are stuck in a traffic jam, or just didn't want to get up earlier to get to the aiport, you would just walk up and bump people who had been there the alotted time.
Seatacus
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I've got a feeling that Doug is going to do whatever makes the fewest waves. He doesn't want to rock this boat. Forget about what is the most fair or even what is right. I believe that he wants as smooth an operation as he can create and then he is ready for plan B. Whatever that is. :unsure:
What if your computer/internet/electrical goes down? I guess you can call the secret number at the airport
ChrisUS
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Welcome to the world of a retiree. :down:
All Commuters have to do is call crew scheduling and get positive space that is if crew scheduling needs them bad enough going back home not so good.
Hey people ...I do not like to be ignored 😀
i posted this yesterday ..and you all seem to read over it
heh heh
so how about someone tell me what they think of my suggestion....be kind now .. B)
I was going to suggest that first come first serve for international flights and Hawaii since flight are limited and the next flight is the next day.
but senority for domestic flights since your alternatives are better if worse come to worse we can use greyhound or southwest
what do you think about this idea ?? huh huh -_-
i posted this yesterday ..and you all seem to read over it
heh heh
so how about someone tell me what they think of my suggestion....be kind now .. B)
I was going to suggest that first come first serve for international flights and Hawaii since flight are limited and the next flight is the next day.
but senority for domestic flights since your alternatives are better if worse come to worse we can use greyhound or southwest
what do you think about this idea ?? huh huh -_-
It was his choice to live away from his PHL base and become a commuter.
It's not the ONLY fair way. It's not fair to the person who waited at the airport for 3 hours only to be bumped at the last minute by someone with 1 week more seniority who wanders up 15 minutes before departure.
I can concede that check-in time isn't the ONLY fair way. However, I don't think you are willing to concede that seniority isn't the ONLY fair way.
whtaever decision is reached--I will accept it and live with it. I have a feeling many other people will not-and only use it as an excuse to be more negative in their jobs. I certainly hope I am wrong in that aspect. We should be lucky we HAVE this benefit anyway
BoeingBoy
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Only a question - how about those employees on a domestic flight to an international or HI connection?
Jim
ps - I still think the idea I mentioned once - having a set of different priorities so complex that everyone has their "own priority" might be the answer. Start it at the top with:
1 - Employees traveling to a family emergency (could substitute some kind of space positive here)
2 - Employees commuting to work
3 - Employees traveling with money already paid out (deposits, interline tickets, etc)(vacation passes would eliminate this class)
4 - Employees traveling from a family emergency (gotta get them back so they can work)
5 - Employees returning from personal travel (likewise)
6 - Retirees who have jobs returning from personal travel (likewise)
7 - Employees traveling from work
8 - Retirees departing on personal travel (I'll put myself way down the list)
This is just the start - any other ideas?
