Nothing wrong with the Nicalou

[AWA320]

I had to go back and re-read that award line by line and I'm sorry east I just don't see your gripe. I have read on here by several that your attrition was some how stolen yet I can't seem to find your attrition outside this merger. I have also read on this forum that AWA was going into BK without the merger and while that remains to be seen I will conceed that point for the purposes of this post. I as well as the rest of the aviation community saw AAA going into liquidation as stated by Scott Kirby.

So what attrition are we talking about here?? is it the wish list you had prior to all the bad years?? Facts need to be faced here without one another we both had problems however the east problems were far greater than ours in the west.

This award was more than fair and George took everything into account. I don't think many of you have read the entire award and all that was stated within.

 

[Mr Furlough]

I had to go back and re-read that award line by line and I'm sorry east I just don't see your gripe. I have read on here by several that your attrition was some how stolen yet I can't seem to find your attrition outside this merger. I have also read on this forum that AWA was going into BK without the merger and while that remains to be seen I will conceed that point for the purposes of this post. I as well as the rest of the aviation community saw AAA going into liquidation as stated by Scott Kirby.

So what attrition are we talking about here?? is it the wish list you had prior to all the bad years?? Facts need to be faced here without one another we both had problems however the east problems were far greater than ours in the west.

This award was more than fair and George took everything into account. I don't think many of you have read the entire award and all that was stated within.

Mr. AWA320,

Or is it Ms.? Not that it's an issue. I believe that your assessments, though thoughtful, are wrong. As unless a company ala TWA/American are in liquidation, than the health of either company isn't an issue. Further, let's face it, neither company was swelling with success. And to that point, I can find no evidence that there was an exchange of monies with this this merger (you know, one company purcheses another). But even if there was a purchase-insofar as you and us are concerned-a merging process of the two seniority list would be pursuant to the event. Hence: It's not the issue.

You can read the Nicolau Award over and over. But if it were that simple, I assure you, ALPA National would not be involved as they are today. Truth is stranger than fiction. The dilemma stems from the intent of "seniority" vs. "merger policy". And since our marriage isn't agreeable to those two factors-than a real problem with the ALPA Merger policy has been surfaced. Trust me on this one-ALPA National knows that.

So, that brings us, you, me, all of us to this point. It's a calling if you will. What is best for the piloting profession? Can we afford to sacrifice true years of service for relative seniority? Or should we embrace the concept of seniority via years of service over relative seniority? I gather what you think, and I suppose you gather what I think.

The correct thing to do is to forget about Nicolau. His assessment is far too damaging to careers and families. It's a deal breaker. And if you were in the shoes of those whom have been harmed by his decision-I would hope that you too would fight like hell as well.

It strikes me that you may be a relatively young person. Not that is a detriment in any way. But if you are relatively young consider this: Given the carrier remains healthy, you will be fine. But your advancement of keeping the Nicolau award has consequences. If you are young, in this deal, you are way ahead of the game It's the people with limited years remaining that are vulnerable-on both sides.

So my message to you is: There is a much bigger picture. As someday you will see the sand in the hour glass and realize that there isn't as much time as you would like. And given that our seniority system robs all of us of the opportunity of a lateral move-than our years of service become dear. We are actually together in this monumental decision. It's a "would you rather" quagmire!

 

[EastUS]

I had to go back and re-read that award line by line and e entire award and all that was stated within.

I'm sorry that your reading skills are truly that limited.
I've tried "reason" with you many times...and as of tonight..would simply wish to "see you in the sky"...an earlier post from another suggested swords/etc..naaah..that would be as much an "unfair" advantage for me. I wouldn't want any "windfall" in a duel It's a sad thing that we live in a time wherein "men" cannot be taken to task for their "mouths".

Given that?..You're a person of seemingly such "character" that I'd NEVER wish to have aboard for any actual "real world" airline troubles...much less enemy actions...no need for utterly "confused"/cross-threaded/clueless individuals that'd likely cry for Mommy at the first shot. You've personally fully convinced me that AWA's filled with little more than a buncha' mouthy, unskilled, clueless little punks...good job.

You claim a birthdate in the early sixties..HOW TF did you "manage" to live this long, and yet stay so ignorant? Were you a USAF?USN "wannabe"...or did you simply live an utterly self centerd life all this time? Was it truly your fantasy that "flight" is properly confined to 30 degrees of bank?..or is that all that you handle?
I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND your sorry sorts. I've NEVER understood those who didn't want to actually "FLY"..and instead, sought out extremely timid commercial BS, so as to call themselves "Pilots".

My resulting opinon?=

You're just an utterly spineless little blowhard-punk-pissant that's of zero actual consequence to the "real world".

I'd express my true feelings..but I like to sugarcoat things a bit in the name of diplomacy😉

 

[freedom]

I think it still has some life in it so keep going!

http://usera.imagecave.com/serioustrouble/..._dead_horse.jpg

 

[EastUS]

I think it still has some life in it so keep going!

http://usera.imagecave.com/serioustrouble/..._dead_horse.jpg

"freedom"?=That's just so precious for a "name"

Umm..just being a simpleton "troll"...or is there any point?

 

[SkyRat]

I think it still has some life in it so keep going!

http://usera.imagecave.com/serioustrouble/..._dead_horse.jpg

EXACTLY!

 

[EastUS]

EXACTLY!

Perfctly "cutsie pie" "skyrat" I'll assume that in forwarding the previous poster's pic..you accord yourself the fantasy of having actually had a "thought"?..of your own?

I'll get off of this..\conversing with AWA "pilots" is likely much akin to child abuse.

I'm so utterly sick of trying to even slightly reason with you pathetically immature, and generally just plain stupid jerkoffs from the "Baby" west that words now largely fail me.


"Kindly exclude any/all postings I've made seeking "reason".."some middle ground".."working for ALL"...just go screw yourselves."

 

[nycbusdriver]

I have read on here by several that your attrition was some how stolen yet I can't seem to find your attrition outside this merger.

So. Let me get this correct.

Somehow you think that we would not have had to retire at age 60 unless we merged with AWA? No attrition outside this merger...what an interesting concept.

Take another drag and get back to us in the morning when you sober up.

 

[jimntx]

Mr. AWA320,

As unless a company ala TWA/American are in liquidation, than the health of either company isn't an issue.

Mr. AWA320 is not the only one who needs to get his/her facts straight. No one in the TWA/American deal was in liquidation. I don't know why that myth keeps getting repeated.

TWA went into bankruptcy at AMR's insistence, as part of the purchase deal. AMR wanted TWA to go into bk to get rid of the Karaboo (sp?) agreement with Icahn.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Mr. AWA320 is not the only one who needs to get his/her facts straight. No one in the TWA/American deal was in liquidation. I don't know why that myth keeps getting repeated.

TWA went into bankruptcy at AMR's insistence, as part of the purchase deal. AMR wanted TWA to go into bk to get rid of the Karaboo (sp?) agreement with Icahn.

Yea, the point of that statement is that the scope had been dissolved (in the TWA/AMR deal) in order to allow the rest of that deal to fall into place. Which makes that example of a merger process an invalid comparison to ours.

But your point is well taken.

 

[SKY HIGH]

Nothing wrong with the Nicalou

sky high states: SHEEEEEESH. LIKE YOU NEED "ANOTHER" THREAD STARTED ON THE PILOT ISSUE, WERENT THESE ENOUGH:


LET THE BLAME GAME BEGIN! 123» 7

AWA going to blue backers 123

Awa 320 flying with east co-pilot 12

LEC 41 (PHL) & 94 (PIT) Update #1, #2, & #3
6/6/07

AWA MEC Chairman Special Update 1234
June 3, 2007

One more reason for seniority-based system 123»

Thoughtful Wisdom from an Airline Pilot to FFOCUS members
Sleep well tonight, he will have your life in his hands

US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman's Message

US Airways ALPA PHL Council 41 Update 123» 6
June 4, 2007

US Airways ALPA MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
June 4, 2007

A WINDFALL HAS TAKEN PLACE. 1234

AWA MEC Chairman's Message 1234
May 31, 2007

Poll: The pilot group , what do you think will happen ? 1234
A quick poll

Email to ALPA President
May 29, 2007

Those Silly Pilots 1234
Spoiled Rotten or legit Gripes?

From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot 123» 9

An interesting thought to the pilot 1234
seniority integration problem

Dear Captain Prater 1234
ALPA President

ALPA RULING OUT 123» 7
NO BIG NEWS

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE 123
May 25, 2007

ALPA EC Decision Expected Today 123» 6

East MEC address George Nicalou 12

This explains it 1234
For those westies who say we didn't lose anything

Over 450 US pilots show at Herndon 12

America West pilots to brethren at US Airways: Be thankful 1234

THAT SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT RUNS DEEP AMONG AAA PILOTS 12

EAST MEC SETTING THEIR PILOTS UP FOR FAILURE 123

Last post by: Be Careful What You Wish For.
US Airways East ALPA MEC Conference Call Update 123»

13 PAGES already!!!!!!

only stating opinions.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The issue is big enough to the East pilots that about 450 attended the May 21 EC meeting.

Everything an AWA pilot does is based on seniority and now AWA320 wants to see a 3-month AWA pilot who was on probation with the Company and ALPA at the time of the merger become senior to a 19-year US Airways veteran with continuous service.

Or pilots who had 15 years of service stapled to the bottom of the list.

Guess what? This will never, never happen!

I'm sorry, there is nothing good about the Nicolau Award.

If a person wants to preserve pre-merger career expectation and keep it exactly how it was pre-merger then there needs to be permanent fences east and west of the Mississippi River, shared growth, and shared scope protections.

What is wrong with this option as a consensual agreement to prevent a pilot group war that could tear the company apart?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[exB717Flyer]

From the AWA MEC Chairman:

June 7, 2007

Fellow pilots,

Last night, I sent out an autodialer message as a special update for all America West pilots and their families. It read as follows:

“This afternoon, MEC Vice Chairman Mitch Vasin and I met with ALPA President John Prater and the US Airways MEC leadership in Washington. Captain Prater delivered the message that he wants the MECs to immediately engage in a process to utilize the JNC and other parties to explore fences and other career progression provisions. I have discussed this with the MEC and we are unified in our message. No Thank you. We will respectfully decline Captain Prater’s immediate request. Our MEC is quite willing to engage in any process that gets our pilots closer to a joint contract, but only after ALPA has made it clear that it will not set aside or review the Nicolau Award. Your MEC is unwilling to enter into those discussions while there remains any threat that ALPA will do anything other than comply fully and properly with its obligations under Merger Policy – namely defend the Award and present it to management.

As always, please continue to fly safe and secure.â€

At the meeting, the message I delivered was the same that was delivered to ALPA’s Executive Council in May. ALPA’s merger policy is clear – the arbitration panel’s decision is final and binding on all parties and we expect ALPA to defend this award. We expect that ALPA’s Executive Council will reconvene at the end of June and we also expect ALPA to effect the presentation of this Award to US Airways CEO Doug Parker and defend this award using all available resources. I have also asked our outside merger counsel, Jeff Freund, to begin reviewing all our legal options to ensure we carefully protect the interests of the America West pilots. The letter I sent to Captain Prater this afternoon responding to his invitation is attached.

I am pleased to announce that the AAA MEC clearly expressed that they are willing to continue to address both our pilot groups mutual collective bargaining concerns and continue the JNC process. To that end, the east and west JNC members have secured additional dates for the JNC process starting July 10 and going through the remainder of the summer. Additionally, I remain hopeful that we can find additional dates. To that end, the AWA MEC has authorized me to continue in the JNC process with the goal being that we can achieve a ratifiable tentative agreement by the fall.

 

[SKY HIGH]

The issue is big enough to the East pilots that about 450 attended the May 21 EC meeting.

sky high states: Seriously, You have my sympathy. However, the board has been inundated with this issue, 13 pages and counting, where in reality, it COULD BE DISCUSSED IN "ONE TOPIC".


only stating opinions

 

[Piedmont1984]

sky high states: Seriously, You have my sympathy. However, the board has been inundated with this issue, 13 pages and counting, where in reality, it COULD BE DISCUSSED IN "ONE TOPIC".
only stating opinions

Inundation is the wellspring of all grassroot movements.