From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot

[EyeInTheSky]

Pi brat,

Think of it this way:

There's an America West pilot walking behind a little old lady in the airport. As the old lady walks along a wad of hundred dollar bills falls out of her purse. The America West pilot picks up the wad and studies it. He thinks to himself - gosh I need to give this money back, after all, she's just a little old lady and this could be a lot of her savings.

He looks at the wad of bills again, he thinks hot rendezvous with the mistress at Lake Havasu -- this [wad of money]sure could buy some really hot new Victoria's Secret for the honey. He's torn. Should he run up and hand the old lady her money back? Or should he keep it. He tknows taking this money is taking advantage of something that's not his. After a moment he starts to run towards the old lady, but then, he stops and puts the money in his pocket and walks away. He mumbles she's old and won't miss it anyway.

Later,
Eye

Well, I guess you are not in as good a positon as some of your coworkers. I see it as the guys put right in front of me got a windfall. Either way, nobody "stole" anything. A gift from crazy old St. Nic maybe, but not a theft.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi brat,

Think of it this way:

There's an America West pilot walking behind a little old lady in the airport. As the old lady walks along a wad of hundred dollar bills falls out of her purse. The America West pilot picks up the wad and studies it. He thinks to himself - gosh I need to give this money back, after all, she's just a little old lady and this could be a lot of her savings.

He looks at the wad of bills again, he thinks hot rendezvous with the mistress at Lake Havasu -- this [wad of money]sure could buy some really hot new Victoria's Secret for the honey. He's torn. Should he run up and hand the old lady her money back? Or should he keep it. He tknows taking this money is taking advantage of something that's not his. After a moment he starts to run towards the old lady, but then, he stops and puts the money in his pocket and walks away. He mumbles she's old and won't miss it anyway.

Later,
Eye

Or maybe that the old woman was grumpy to her kids, so she doesn't deserve to get the money back.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Alot of east folks have put in alot of time coming up with pages and pages of analogies and eloquent stories. If it would have gone your way the only words would have been "thats the way it is in this business, go pound sand," man that would have saved you guys a ton of effort. Bummer.

 

[Pi brat]

Alot of east folks have put in alot of time coming up with pages and pages of analogies and eloquent stories. If it would have gone your way the only words would have been "thats the way it is in this business, go pound sand," man that would have saved you guys a ton of effort. Bummer.

I agree most would have said that, but it wouldn't have saved any effort because the AWA guys would be screaming how unfair it was, they are going to pull out of ALPA, etc.

 

[Bear96]

I agree most would have said that, but it wouldn't have saved any effort because the AWA guys would be screaming how unfair it was, they are going to pull out of ALPA, etc.

Somehow, I don't think it would have been the same.

Sure, there would have been some whining and moaning for a while. But no group has the self-pity routine down better -- and are louder about it -- than the Former U's. (Except perhaps the former TW F/As over on the AA board.)

 

[Pi brat]

Somehow, I don't think it would have been the same.

Sure, there would have been some whining and moaning for a while. But no group has the self-pity routine down better -- and are louder about it -- than the Former U's. (Except perhaps the former TW F/As over on the AA board.)

Who knows? Has any group been through what the US group has? But I'm a pilot, so I know pilots, so they would whine. BTW, I had a UA pilot on the js a few weeks ago from PHX-LAX. He whined more about UA in that hour than 10 US pilots could.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I agree most would have said that, but it wouldn't have saved any effort because the AWA guys would be screaming how unfair it was, they are going to pull out of ALPA, etc.

Certainly not me, and I doubt too many others either. You see, we were very nervous prior to Nicolau's decision and I, for one, wouldn't have been surprised if we'd gotten screwed. My reaction to the Award was more relief than joy.

If the Easties were confident they'd prevail in the Award -- they shouldn't have been.

(Except perhaps the former TW F/As over on the AA board.)

The APFA refused to even talk to the TWA F/A's, stapled 100% of them, told them they though it was fair, then 100% of them were furloughed, and since there's a five-year limit many won't be able to come back at all. Now, self-pity doesn't do anybody any good but if there's ever a good reason for moaning about treatment during a merger I'd say they're well within it.

 

[midnightmech]

OMG...it just goes on and on.....east bitches and rationalizes, west counters....you know what? STOP IT....your NEVER going to get together , anytime,anywhere, anyplace....jeeze im so sick of trying to figure this out...the job sucks anymore, the company blows, the management is worthless ( in HR anyway )...great place to be after 25+ years...you know what? Let it die...let the horse fall down....stop trying to hold this up at the cost of all the mental anguish...theres no pill to take to fix this crap anymore...June 1 is a good place to begin....have a nice day.

 

[EastUS]

Or maybe that the old woman was grumpy to her kids, so she doesn't deserve to get the money back.

Ah="Justified" THEFT

I believe that simple "one-liner", more than anything I've otherwise read; fully and truly summarizes the AWA position, moral stance/etc...at least as I've most often seen it posted hereabouts

It's statistically improbable that the entire group out west is utterly ignorant of the actual effects of the "award", and the east's very real resolve to never accept such. It's equally unlikely that some sizeable number of reasonable pilots don't exist out west. I'm hoping that this can be resolved to our mutual benefit....perhaps anyway....ummm....eventually...sigh.

 

[73320]

EastUS,

Most all of the west pilots are reasonable. We were amazed that your sides stance in mediation/arbitration was quite unreasonable to us, and you were unwilling to move off of it. Most of us also sincerely hope that the outcome if implemented does not change your ability to capture east attrition. Check your PM if you care to discuss the matter reasonably. I am certain we will find common ground.

 

[Bear96]

The APFA refused to even talk to the TWA F/A's, stapled 100% of them, told them they though it was fair, then 100% of them were furloughed, and since there's a five-year limit many won't be able to come back at all. Now, self-pity doesn't do anybody any good but if there's ever a good reason for moaning about treatment during a merger I'd say they're well within it.

Sure, moan for a while. But it has now been SIX YEARS, and still barely a thread can go by on the AA board without a TW F/A popping up to remind everyone how terribly they were treated.

Yes, they were treated badly -- that is generally accepted. But it is over. It is well past time to get on with their lives one way or the other.

 

[Busdrvr]

Sure, moan for a while. But it has now been SIX YEARS, and still barely a thread can go by on the AA board without a TW F/A popping up to remind everyone how terribly they were treated.

Well, it's not like they have a job they should be at... :unsure:

 

[exB717Flyer]

Yes, they were treated badly -- that is generally accepted. But it is over.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." There's a lesson to be learned from every merger. I don't think the ex-TWA F/As speak out for self-pity but as a warning to others. If I were king of the land I would make binding arbitration the law for any union integration.

 

[EastUS]

But no group has the self-pity routine down better -- and are louder about it -- than the Former U's. (Except perhaps the former TW F/As over on the AA board.)

Actually..that's hardly the case. It's been my experience that no conversation burdened by one or more lawyers is ever really complete without major self indulgences regarding their "thankless role"

 

[Bear96]

Well, it's not like they have a job they should be at... :unsure:

After six years, they should have found another job. Heck, they could have gone back to school and picked up a couple of new degrees in some hot job field.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." There's a lesson to be learned from every merger. I don't think the ex-TWA F/As speak out for self-pity but as a warning to others.

Naaah . . . at this point, it's self-pity.

If I were king of the land I would make binding arbitration the law for any union integration.

Yes, because that always works so well and never leaves anyone feeling like a victim of the system!

Actually..that's hardly the case. It's been my experience that no conversation burdened by one or more lawyers is ever really complete without major self indulgences regarding their "thankless role"

Really? Interesting.

I have lots of converstaions with lawyers and have never heard anything like that.