Nothing wrong with the Nicalou

[USA320Pilot]

A320Driver,

I agree with your post and that is my desire too, but if the AWA MEC is unwilling to comply with the EC's May 24 resolution and unwilling to discuss fences per Prater's proposal, then there will be no joint contract and no pay raises for either side, except for the East through movement up the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[SegmentKing]

Um... so MidAtlantic "division" means they are separate? the "Division" was only a figment of Jerry Glass's mind.

Cause when I worked the MDA E170s, at least on the ground, we used 100% USAIRWAYS paperwork.. when a PSA CRJ 200 or 700 would show up, we used USAirways Express paperwork.

when we'd have to gate check a car seat on MidAtlantic, I used a white tag that said "USAirways" on it... when we'd check that same car seat (gate check) on PSA, I'd use a lil flimsy yellow tag that said "USAirways Express"

When a PSA jet would cancel, we'd get a call from Dayton...

When a MidAtlantic plane would cancel, we'd get a call from OCC - Pittsburg.

And if we had more than 3 MDA flights, I believe we'd all have to be converted from Piedmont to USAirways mainline employees, correct?

-----------------------------------
so all this being said, the planes, staffed by USAirways captains & FOs, FAs, staffed on planes that are on the USAirways certificate, USAirways paperwork, and so forth.... these were USAirways employees, not MidAtlantic (plus MDA never had its own FEIN).

So if these guys were flying the MDA "division" at the time of the merger, they should very well be considered *active* USAirways employees and slotted in as such.

I'm not sure if I ever met Rico, but I believe I've met algflyr. Some of these pilots have kids in college and were flying the Fokkers in Key West back in the early 90s and have years upon years of experience and I feel they deserve to maintain those years with the New Usairways.

It was a sad day watching the final MDA E170 leave Key West, as they were replaced by RW (replacement worker) flights the next day 🙁 One of our mega ff's even noticed the difference in service... professional flight attendants one day, and kids that look like they just got out of high school the next.

 

[A320 Driver]

A320Driver,

I agree with your post and that is my desire too, but if the AWA MEC is unwilling to comply with the EC's May 24 resolution and unwilling to discuss fences per Prater's proposal, then there will be no joint contract and no pay raises for either side, except for the East through movement up the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Then, I believe the West will pay a price for it. Prater seems pretty insistant that steps be taken to work this out. Between their refusal to talk about it and now their rep proposing that Prater be recalled as president of ALPA, I think they are playing with fire.

We'll see.

A320 Driver B)

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Pretty much proves to me that the award gave the west a windfall. If all was equal, they wouldn't be so against working something out.

 

[Rico]

The difference between the E-170 and Dash 8 flying was that the E-170 flying was done under the MDA division while when the Dash 8s were around the West they were flown by AWA not a separate certificate or division. I personally don't believe that justifies what happened with the MDA guys but that was the way these two companies decided to structure their fleet.

There was no separate "division", no separate contract, were run by the Hogg and Bular, just like the rest of US Airways Mainline...

The only difference was less pay.

It was no different that your Dash 8's, and should be given the same status as active flying, period.

 

[AWA320]

It's obvious that he's trying to protect his windfall....

Can you point me to where this supposed windfall is?? I have been looking all over and can't seem to find it? Just where the hell is it.

Oh well I'll start at the top and see if it's there! Yep there it is and it goes on for another 517 numbers. I knew it was somewhere around here.

You guys are just too funny for words. 18yrs bought you are very jr position pre merger, now post merger it gets you the same relative position. What is it that you guys are looking for??? Could it be a boast up on my back, a windfall perhaps?? Hmmm I wonder if it had gone DOH would you still be screaming like a stuck pig???

I dont know if they will or not. Either way AWA320 wont be flying out of the East anytime soon.

whatever gave you the impression that I ever wanted too??? I don't and will never have the desire to fly out of the east coast. Now that's not to say that we don't have people who live in the east that would like to opportunity to fly there, and the same for the east folks who live west.

Pretty much proves to me that the award gave the west a windfall. If all was equal, they wouldn't be so against working something out.

Man, what world are you living in???? Where is this windfall besids the top 517?????? Wake up and try to smell what you are shoveling!!!!

Then, I believe the West will pay a price for it. Prater seems pretty insistant that steps be taken to work this out. Between their refusal to talk about it and now their Executive VP proposing that Prater be recalled as president of ALPA, I think they are playing with fire.

We'll see.

A320 Driver B)

Our EVP did that??? I sincerely doubt it. You need to get your facts stright and quick!! That came from one of our status reps and I fully support the idea. Never in the 75yrs of ALPA has the president granted an excutive committee hearing following a arbitrated award.

Prater is sending this union to the toilet and for certain is a one term officer. I need to check my UAL contacts to make sure they on board with praters actions because if not we can say bye bye to him now...

A320Driver,

I agree with your post and that is my desire too, but if the AWA MEC is unwilling to comply with the EC's May 24 resolution and unwilling to discuss fences per Prater's proposal, then there will be no joint contract and no pay raises for either side, except for the East through movement up the seniority list.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I guess I must have missed the part where it said feel sorry and renegotiate. Where is that part?? Where is it in ALPA merger policy that gives the excutive committee this power that you are looking for. You had better hope for all carriers that are in alpa that there is a loop hole because if not, you will be deagging them down too with your selfishness.

Can't wait for the DFR suit and the end of a corrupt union. Just a couple more days now folks so get your tickets now

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You're stupider than some of your posts if you don't think that the top 517 aren't already where they're gonna stay. It was a "non-award". Where would they go, they're already on the top paying equipment. Since there is "no bump", and never is in these mergers, they weren't going anywhere.
I guess we pretty much proved that you're no rocket scientist, didn't we.
Oh, and to answer your question. The windfall is putting guys that weren't even on your property for a year ahead of guys on the east that were there more than 17 years before. It is ABSOLUTELY A WINDFALL. Ask your wife, your neighbors, anybody. I'll bet they agree with what I'm saying, but you probably already know that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There was no separate "division", no separate contract, were run by the Hogg and Bular, just like the rest of US Airways Mainline...

Rico,

I think your argument is with the East MEC. They're the ones that for 2 years kept insisting that MDA pilots were not active mainline pilots and that MDA was a separate entity from mainline. A farce that was maintained long after the merger was announced.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "Prater is sending this union to the toilet and for certain is a one term officer. I need to check my UAL contacts to make sure they on board with praters actions because if not we can say bye bye to him now."

USA320Pilot comments: Prater takes his marching orders from the EC. The EC voted 13-1 with AWA EVP Russ Weber the "Lone Ranger" to find a resolution to the Nicolau Award.

I agree with A320 Driver. I believe the AWA MEC is playing with fire by not complying with the EC's May 24 Resolution and AWA F/O Rep. Ray Burkett calling for John Prater's recall. Nothing like "pizzing off" people have have control over whether or not to throw out the Nicolau Award.

The more I think about the more I believe the odds have significantly increased that the Nicolau Award will be thrown out because as Jack Stephan said, "Now that the America West MEC has declared its unwillingness to comply with the Executive Council’s May 24th Resolution, as the Executive Council deliberates on the issues before it, we believe strongly that the Executive Council should take into consideration the America West MEC’s refusal to comply with that Executive Council Resolution."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

The more I think about the more I believe the odds have significantly increased that the Nicolau Award will be thrown out....

More reason to take the bet......

Finally, as indicated earlier, during the May 21 EC meeting there were a number of EVP's who wanted the Nicolau Award thrown out.

In my opinion, if the AWA MEC will not "utilize the JNC and other parties to explore fences and other career progression provisions" per ALPA persident John Prater's request then I believe this increases the odds the EC could thow out the award at June's meeting.

I'm not an expert on this, but two ALPA EVP's and one US Airways MEC member told me that a large portion of the ALPA EC (not a majority) believe the EC can throw out the Nicolau Award.

Will they? Who knows? Can they? Apparently after speaking to Mike Abram a number of EVP's believe they can.

<snip>

....increases the odds that the Nicolau Award will be thorwn out because the AWA MEC has just told the EC to "pound sand".

USA320Pilot,

As I recall, you offered to bet 700UW over the outcome of the last ALPA EC meeting, to no avail. So let's really see if you have the courage of your words.....

I have $5,000 that says the EC will not unilaterally throw out, invalidate, or void the award at the June 2007 meeting.

Just so there's no "misunderstanding" of the terms, here are the operative definitions:

unilaterally: done or undertaken by one person or party, i.e. - without agreement of both MEC's to modify/invalidate the award.

throw out: to dismiss from acceptance or consideration

invalidate: to overthrow, set aside, or make void (a legal decision) by a contrary decision

void: cause to have no legal force or effect

So, how sure of your sources are you? Or, as you said to 700UW, "I bet you do not have the guts! C'mon big boy, show some courage."

$5,000 for the taking.....if you're so sure of the outcome.....

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

One can only hope AWA320 (and several others) give as much attention to family and friends. There have been so many posts one has to wonder if these people have a life beyond the internet. <_<

I agree with mike. AWA 320 you seem to have a very flexible work schedule, you are on here every day and all day.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy,

I do not normally wager and when I do it’s only for a sure thing. My comments above indicated the odds have increased the Award could be thrown out, not that the decision would be a slam dunk.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[nostradamus]

AWA320 Quote

"I need to check my UAL contacts to make sure they on board with praters actions because if not we can say bye bye to him now..."


Nostradamus asks

What does United contacts have to do with anything? How would this make it more right or wrong? How would UAL opinion have anything to do with Capt. Praters' future?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do not normally wager and when I do it’s only for a sure thing.

Is it a bet if it's a "sure thing"? Sounds more like just collecting the suckers' money, but whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, seems to me that you and many (most?) East pilots are betting the farm on something that's very, very far from being a "sure thing". Betting the remainder of your career on something you hope will happen is pretty high stakes and you seem to have no trouble with that wager.....

Jim

 

[AWA320]

I agree with mike. AWA 320 you seem to have a very flexible work schedule, you are on here every day and all day.

I take a laptop on the road so what's your point???

AWA320 Quote

"I need to check my UAL contacts to make sure they on board with praters actions because if not we can say bye bye to him now..."
Nostradamus asks

What does United contacts have to do with anything? How would this make it more right or wrong? How would UAL opinion have anything to do with Capt. Praters' future?

I see you know nothing of union politics, better stick to predicting the future nos!!

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "Prater is sending this union to the toilet and for certain is a one term officer. I need to check my UAL contacts to make sure they on board with praters actions because if not we can say bye bye to him now."

USA320Pilot comments: Prater takes his marching orders from the EC. The EC voted 13-1 with AWA EVP Russ Weber the "Lone Ranger" to find a resolution to the Nicolau Award.

I agree with A320 Driver. I believe the AWA MEC is playing with fire by not complying with the EC's May 24 Resolution and AWA F/O Rep. Ray Burkett calling for John Prater's recall. Nothing like "pizzing off" people have have control over whether or not to throw out the Nicolau Award.

The more I think about the more I believe the odds have significantly increased that the Nicolau Award will be thrown out because as Jack Stephan said, "Now that the America West MEC has declared its unwillingness to comply with the Executive Council’s May 24th Resolution, as the Executive Council deliberates on the issues before it, we believe strongly that the Executive Council should take into consideration the America West MEC’s refusal to comply with that Executive Council Resolution."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Prater should be recalled. I see that you and Herb Holland have been in talks! Herb posted this all over our web board and got no traction what so ever. Good for Ray. BTW pick your friends better Herb has no creditability over here.