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737823

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DL has historically had a sizable presence at Bradley with mainline flying to numerous hubs along with point to point service to several destinations in Florida and at one point CUN. NW at one point operated 757 service to AMS in circa 2006/2007 time frame although clearly the route didn't perform to expectations and went away fairly quickly. Any chance post NYC build-up DL adds back service at Bradley?

Josh
 

BABABOOY

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I would believe "Post NYC build-up" would be West as in SEA. Besides, I don't believe Delta isn't finished with NYC just yet. JMO
 

WorldTraveler

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BDL will get some attention but BOS is the big fish in NE and BOS will see more activity from DL.

Yes, DL has a few more strategic things to do in NYC but the buildout has slowed.... it is now down to reshuffling slots and adding a few strategic routes more than large scale growth.

The west is DL's focus in the next year and I also believe we will see some significant movement in Latin America.

There are some rumors that Alaska is moving out of T6 at LAX back to the north side which if true could further change the competitive climate at LAX. Not sure if DL is trying to buy out their gates or get Skyteam airlines closer to DL or what....
 
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topDawg

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WorldTraveler said:
BDL will get some attention but BOS is the big fish in NE and BOS will see more activity from DL.

Yes, DL has a few more strategic things to do in NYC but the buildout has slowed.... it is now down to reshuffling slots and adding a few strategic routes more than large scale growth.

The west is DL's focus in the next year and I also believe we will see some significant movement in Latin America.

There are some rumors that Alaska is moving out of T6 at LAX back to the north side which if true could further change the competitive climate at LAX. Not sure if DL is trying to buy out their gates or get Skyteam airlines closer to DL or what....
SkyTeam will never have a terminal at LAX. 
T5/6 have a total of three 744 gates, two of them have FIS access and 1 777 gate.  
 
list of the gates right now. 
T5
50B-753
51A-753
51B-764
52A-753
53A-753
53B-753
54A-762
54B-762
55A-753
56-753
57-777
58-744
59-763
 
T6
60-763
61-764
62-764
63-763
64-739(WL)
65-752
66-764
67A-752
67B-764
68A-763
68B-744
69A-744
69B-763
 
With that, AS put 150M into T6. I simply see know possible way they leave. A big part of moving to T6 was so they would be able to get into the T6/7 FIS. Also if they went anywhere (back to T3 is the only real option) they would be displacing someone who would need the T6 space. Hind sight Delta screwed up. Had they taken space in T2 they would have likely been able to move the T3 carriers into T5 and get a hold of TBIT gates like AA will be doing. Unless they can work a deal to get a hold of UA's T6 space (not the best of possibilities) Delta is going to be running out of room shortly.  
 

WorldTraveler

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I don't even know if the rumors are true. AS and DL have both done a lot of things that have ticked each other off and one of those things has been that AS' operation at LAX has suffered because of the crowding at the end of T6 and having to share narrow taxiways with DL in an operation that DL controls. There are shared gates involved and DL does have preferential use of some of them.

DL wants more gates, AS and DL at this point are pushing on each other, and I am sure there are ways that both sides could achieve what they both want. UA will have to cut its LAX operation against competition from AA and DL... UA's costs are the highest in the industry which means they don't stand much of a chance of winning a competitive contest against anyone.

AS' gates could easily be bought out by anyone if the price is right and they have a place to go. DL has spent money on facilities in other airports to get what it wants.

It is also possible that DL wants to get equity partner AeroMexico closer (your favorite) since they fly LAX-MEX but DL can't and DL's goals for AS undoubtedly included gaining access to that route... which is now a casualty to the larger relationship.
 

Kev3188

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Right in the middle.
I coulda sworn this thread was about BDL...
 
Tangents are fun, but it'd be even more fun to have one thread stay at least marginally on topic.
 
AS, LAX, and the battle for Seattle are all being discussed in other active threads.
 
Relative to what Josh asked, where would DL add service to?
 
Or, maybe more importantly, where might they pull service from in order to fund the flying (if applicable)?
 
DL already serves ATL/DTW/CVG/MCO/MSP out of there, as well as RDU (less than daily), and a couple of one offs to CUN.
 
Frequency-wise, they're averaging just under 18 flts./day, so maybe the market isn't there for additions?
 
No clue about loads/yield, so maybe upgauges are the way to go (or not)...
 
Not for nothing, but it's one of the larger cities on the system not to have M/L ramp staff.
 
...And one of the smallest to have AMT's...
 
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WorldTraveler

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nobody who has contributed to the thread seems to think that there will be much focus on DL's part to building up BDL.

Other participants do recognize where DL is growing and that is why those topics were inserted.

BDL, like it or not, is stuck between BOS and NYC in terms of size and focus. Important city but not in the scope of a larger competitive environment which is playing out in larger cities on both coasts.
 

Kev3188

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Right in the middle.
Yes, I get all that.
 
Try anyway, and let the "market" here decide if the topic will keep going or wither.
 
This forum is fast becoming an amorphous blob. It's on all of us to thwart that. That includes you. Please do your part.
 
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topDawg

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Kev3188 said:
I coulda sworn this thread was about BDL...
 
Tangents are fun, but it'd be even more fun to have one thread stay at least marginally on topic.
 
AS, LAX, and the battle for Seattle are all being discussed in other active threads.
 
Relative to what Josh asked, where would DL add service to?
 
Or, maybe more importantly, where might they pull service from in order to fund the flying (if applicable)?
 
DL already serves ATL/DTW/CVG/MCO/MSP out of there, as well as RDU (less than daily), and a couple of one offs to CUN.
 
Frequency-wise, they're averaging just under 18 flts./day, so maybe the market isn't there for additions?
 
No clue about loads/yield, so maybe upgauges are the way to go (or not)...
 
Not for nothing, but it's one of the larger cities on the system not to have M/L ramp staff.
 
...And one of the smallest to have AMT's...
till they figure out how to cover the work with the Mexico MRO. 
 
hmmmm maybe that'll be the next expansion point once the shut all the US hangar work down......target the line with them next! 
 
 
and BDL has an LCC problem. Delta use to have a good bit of Florida flying from BDL. 
 
I do think an SLC flight would work with an airbus. 
 

topDawg

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WorldTraveler said:
I don't even know if the rumors are true. AS and DL have both done a lot of things that have ticked each other off and one of those things has been that AS' operation at LAX has suffered because of the crowding at the end of T6 and having to share narrow taxiways with DL in an operation that DL controls. There are shared gates involved and DL does have preferential use of some of them. 1, 68B. 69A and 68A are AS first right gates. (but even then, AS could give up the space completely....they don't really use the DL gates that much as is.) 

DL wants more gates, AS and DL at this point are pushing on each other, and I am sure there are ways that both sides could achieve what they both want. UA will have to cut its LAX operation against competition from AA and DL... UA's costs are the highest in the industry which means they don't stand much of a chance of winning a competitive contest against anyone. to late now. Now if the political climate changes in LA(good luck with that) LAWA may be able to add gates/add terminals and get AS out......but Delta will stop outsourcing before that happens. (so never)

AS' gates could easily be bought out by anyone if the price is right and they have a place to go. DL has spent money on facilities in other airports to get what it wants.​ Delta can't buy AS out. LAX just doesn't have the room.....and has a hard cap gate limit that LAWA is saving for the expanded TBIT. 
and the price would be 150M, plus the cost to move AS, likely upgrade AS's new digs and then put the money into T6 to change the branding etc. 250-300M fairly easy. Yeah, not going to happen. 

It is also possible that DL wants to get equity partner AeroMexico closer (your favorite) since they fly LAX-MEX but DL can't and DL's goals for AS undoubtedly included gaining access to that route... which is now a casualty to the larger relationship. AM doesn't want to be in T5 or T6 because of the understaffed FIS. When as was in T5 they were constantly having to bus people to TBIT. That is the key reason they moved to T2
But even if they did want to come back, T2 would have the room for AS anyways. 
Again, AS can basically switch with the airlines that went to T3 and thats about it. 
Delta's best, and really only bet, is to 1) bring back the 2/3 gates at T5 that are gone....but the gate cap becomes and issue 2) get United to sublease some space in T6. That wont happen till(IF) the new lease agreement come for UA's T6/7 space. 
and right now I think at best Delta could get 61/63 back....UA has to many flights to completely leave T6. 
 

WorldTraveler

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since someone will sure to note it, just to note that this is a thread about BDL but since we are talking about LAX, I'll note that market forces can and will overcome whatever gate issues that may exist.

DL is rapidly expanding at LAX... DL's capacity by next summer is up 10% while UA's is down. DL's capacity is within a few hundred seats per day of AA as a standalone. Add in US and DL is at about 85% of AA's capacity but more significantly DL is adding capacity in key industry markets. AA might have more service using RJs to smaller cities esp. the southwest and south central regions that are good markets for AA but aren't competitive enough to move the dial one way or the other.

AA will be forced to use split terminals at LAX. UA has plenty of gates but are shrinking. Both have to use the gates they do have to keep

UA has the highest costs, a terrible position to be in as the west coast becomes much more competitive. Both will be forced to defend their west coast operations at a time when both face significant competitive pressures, including from DL at SEA where DL will have a major cost advantage in serving the west coast to Asia. Geographically, SFO and LAX is very vulnerable to competition at more northern hubs. DL's lower costs make it possible for DL to gain a long-lasting advantage.

Based on the most recent quarter, DL's MAINLINE CASM was 6% lower than AA's and 10% lower than UA's. DL's LAX-Tokyo routes generate far more revenue than AA or UA's.

Add in that both AA and UA have significant strategic challenges elsewhere on their network and DL is focusing on the west coast at a time when DL can gain the maximum.

WN is a major player in LAX but they have enormous strategic opportunities on the east coast, to Latin America, and from DAL as well. They do not have the strategic bandwidth to engage in significant growth on the west coast.

AS is having to defend its key SEA home markets and is thus less capable of growth elsewhere on the west coast... and AS has already said their growth will slow in 2014.

DL has tried to get gates from UA but they are trying to hold onto them. DL has enough gates at both LAX and SEA to put a lot of pressure on UA's finances.... same thing in happening in NYC. Eventually UA has to either fly flights that they will lose money on or they cut flights or fall below the minimum use threshold and have to start giving up gates.


Whoever occupies gates has to use them.

Airport gate leases do have market correcting mechanisms in them.

The west coast is precisely one of those regions where there will be a significant rearrangement of the market in 2014.
 

Kev3188

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Right in the middle.
topDawg said:
till they figure out how to cover the work with the Mexico MRO. 
 
hmmmm maybe that'll be the next expansion point once the shut all the US hangar work down......target the line with them next!
I hope I'm dead wrong, but I can see a memo being put out about employees having to "transition" being issued...
 
 

I do think an SLC flight would work with an airbus.
Range-wise? Market-wise? Both?
 
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WorldTraveler

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I hope I'm dead wrong, but I can see a memo being put out about employees having to "transition" being issued...
not sure what this has to do with BDL but....

DL has enough natural attrition and contract work to be able to shift its manning around.

Besides, most of this narrowbody work is already either being done by AM outside of the maintenance JV or by other contractors so there is very little to be lost to the AM/DL maintenance JV. There is a lot of opportunity to move it to a preferred partner.
 
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