NW,UAL,LCC don't need 100% of Delta

[rsv4ever]

You can talk about whatever you wish. Just don't come to the DL board, bash DL employees, and not expect a response. It's pure entertainment-that's all. Unless someone on here is a member of the official creditors' committee, the DOJ, or Mr. Bethune; then nobody knows what's going to happen.
Like I said earlier, nobody should worry until the papers are signed, all the approvals are given, and we see it in writing.

exactly... nobody knows what will happen. if and when this happens, we can deal with it then.

 

[jack mama]

who is paying Bethune? The creditors committee, or Delta?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The debtor pays all the expenses of the official committee.

Jim

 

[Gilding the Lily]

The debtor pays all the expenses of the official committee.

Jim

Contracted with the committee, monies from the estate of the debtor, but duties are owed to committee (not DL).

 

[whlinder]

Don't be surprised at a carved up Delta going in three or four different places.

Agree. I can totally see that happening.

And then they can rearrange planes to fit the fleets as necessary.

 

[phasersonstun2]

If either LCC OR NW ends up with Delta...

NW will get BOS, ATL and some Europe and South America... LCC will get JFK, some Europe and South America.

 

[luv2fly]

If either LCC OR NW ends up with Delta...

NW will get BOS, ATL and some Europe and South America... LCC will get JFK, some Europe and South America.

What a NW/DL combo means, it the largest trans-atlantic carrier with be merged with a dominant trans-pacific route structure.
Don't fret. You'll always have PHL.

 

[skyflyr69]

Why would ANY US employee want this merger anyway? No growth means no movement for the masses. This will help NO one at U.
:down: :down:

 

[phasersonstun2]

What a NW/DL combo means, it the largest trans-atlantic carrier with be merged with a dominant trans-pacific route structure.
Don't fret. You'll always have PHL.

DOJ won't allow it. Same as the DL/LCC deal. FLights will be spun off no matter WHO buys Delta.

 

[luv2fly]

DOJ won't allow it. Same as the DL/LCC deal. FLights will be spun off no matter WHO buys Delta.

Far less spun off with a DL/NW merge than the proposed DL/US merge.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL and NW have virtually no overlap - I don't know of a single city where NW and DL provide the only service. I don't believe there would be any divestitures w/ DL/NW.

Nor do I think that DL and NW would result in cutting any carrier up... the proposal as it stands now is a merger after BK.... that could involve a merger inside of BK for both carriers w/ the assistance of a friendly outside entity. Either way, the proposal is a merger of equals - not a hostile takeover.

US has and will have a shrinking market. Those real LFCs are not pulling into dozens of small cities throughout the east and you know it. US is getting its backside eaten alive in PHL and PIT and CLT is getting there so they want to control the few remaining markets where no LFC will show up. No dice says the Feds.

In the airline industry, there is a strong correlation between market size and the ability to control fares. It’s a lot easier to never let a carrier get in a position to be able to gouge the public than to do something about it once it happens.

What Parker is doing is trying to load up his airline (including DL) with debt so it can control the market. It is no different than what Carl Icahn did to TWA or Lorenzo did to Texas Air, Eastern, and Continental – all of which ended up in significant financial problems or are no longer here. And NW was a victim of an LBO (leverage buyout)

The feds may not be able to stop LBOs or other attempts to put companies in debt in order to fatten investor pockets but when it involves a merger they surely can stop it. There is no evidence that what Doug Parker wants to do will benefit anyone other than US stockholders. The US is not willing for millions of travelers and dozens of cities to pay the price for US to succeed.

The best thing that can happen is for US to be told by Congress that it will block every attempt by US to concentrate the marketplace. Then DL can emerge on its own, perhaps even offering the creditors some cash but not as much as US is willing to do. If DL and NW merge and NW emerges with a light debt load and low costs (which are expected although NW hasn’t filed its POR so we don’t know), then that combined company can carry some debt necessary to satisfy its creditors with some cash while combining two airlines that together can give Americans more of what they need – and NW the ability to upgrade its product.

Reason will return to this whole process – and DL’s plan will prevail because it provides benefits to all involved – just not to DL’s creditors at the expense of all others as US proposes.

 

[Bulscu]

ahhh, nope...






try again 😉

 

[UPNAWAY]

The feds may not be able to stop LBOs or other attempts to put companies in debt in order to fatten investor pockets but when it involves a merger they surely can stop it. There is no evidence that what Doug Parker wants to do will benefit anyone other than US stockholders. The US is not willing for millions of travelers and dozens of cities to pay the price for US to succeed.

The best thing that can happen is for US to be told by Congress that it will block every attempt by US to concentrate the marketplace.


If I where a lawyer presenting a merger to the DOJ all one has to do is point out that the airline industry has never made money over it's history, not a penny, nada, zilch! This all goes way beyond 9-11 it is not a money making industry. Hence the competitive (or lack there of) issues raised by merger are pointless.

 

[Cosmo]

Reason will return to this whole process – and DL’s plan will prevail because it provides benefits to all involved – just not to DL’s creditors at the expense of all others as US proposes.

In that one "rosy scenario" sentence, you've shown all of us the stunning flaw in your reasoning. Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings indeed ARE for the benefit of the creditors -- not management, not shareholders, not employees, not communities and especially not Congress! And absolutely certainly NOT at the expense of the creditors. If agreements can be reached with the creditors (and approved by the judge), there might be some (potentially significant) benefits for these other stakeholders, but it is not a requirement in bankruptcy law. And if management gets too confrontational with the creditors, the debtor could find itself being run by a court-appointed trustee. Don't think it can happen to Delta? Ask Eastern.

And all of your claims that Congress will prohibit US Airways from doing this and the DOJ will prohibit US Airways from doing that, are pretty vague. Exactly what would Congress or the DOJ do to stop a US/DL merger? Would Congress pass a law to that effect, only to almost certainly have Bush veto it? Would the DOJ send a junior lawyer (or even the Attorney General himself) to the bankruptcy court to tell a judge what he "must" do without any discretion on his part simply because the government says so? I would love to see that encounter! Be sure to remember the "Separation of Powers" doctrine in situations like this.

Look, I agree with you that a DL/NW merger would almost certainly be better operationally than the proposed US acquisition of DL. And it would also likely be better for all of the stakeholders I mentioned above, other than the creditors. And the creditors may eventually decide that the DL plan (whatever it ultimately turns out to be in final form) is better than the US proposal. But they may not, and that's the issue -- the creditors have all (or, at the very least, most) of the leverage with the bankruptcy judge, and they will most likely get their way. And IMHO there's virtually nothing that you or I or any of the other stakeholders can do about it. For you to think otherwise is being naive in the extreme.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Let me dumb this down for you again darien.
Can you read or do we need to simplify it even more for you Einstein?
If you are typical of US employees, we are doomed.
And rightly so. If this merge proceeds, DL employees aren't the only one hitting the unemployment lines.

Just what kind of fragment clause do you have there luv?

Maybe it will be just like the old PanAm days?