sky high states: Sure, they leave! Hundreds and hundreds left the company via voluntary furlough (with some benefits).
only stating opinions
Oct PHX F/A Crew News with Isom and Sheri VP Shame on you
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sky high states: Sure, they leave! Hundreds and hundreds left the company via voluntary furlough (with some benefits).
only stating opinions
USstew23
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I think it says alot about their working conditions out West. We on the East think we have it soooo horrible but maybe the grass isn't always greener. It's not that wonderful around here right now but I guarantee that RSV's on the East have it a hell of a lot better than the RSV's on the West (I'm a RSV) and we need to keep that in mind when it comes time to vote on a contract. I know we certainly do not need that kind of crap RSV system they have out West with that tagging and nasty crew scheduling.
Lesson to East F/A's: never domicile where headquartered. We are under the management microscope constantly. The reserve system stinks here in PHX. Crew Scheduling is on a power trip, and they love to push our contract to their limits (fly it and grieve it). No wonder there are so many in PHX that want to transfer out...
As for our chatting with management about our issues: why waste our time?
As for our chatting with management about our issues: why waste our time?
Hi, I'm brand new to the board and have been reading quite a bit. Please don't take what I am about to write as East against West but I am just putting the West RSV info out there and asking if my info about the East RSV is incorrect.
On the West, if we are on "at home" reserve, the shifts are 12 hours, ie 0100-1300, 0700-1900, or 0500-1500 with a minimum 2 hour call out. I have been told East RSV have a full 24 hour shift with a only 90 minute call out. Is that true?
On the West RSV we also have an assignment @1600 for the next day, either a scheduled trip, "at home" reserve or a 5 hour hot reserve shift. I like "knowing" my schedule for the next day 😉 How does it work on the East?
This is a great forum to be exchanging our views on our work conditions, benefits and such. By exchanging information we can all make informed decisions on what is best and how to fix what is broke and it might not necessarily be what is in place on either the East or the West but maybe even a new concept.
Don't quote me on this but I think RSV on the West is running about 3-4 years right now.
sky high states: West AFA, where are they????????? Push your contract to their limits? Contract violation?
Site some examples. thanks
only stating opinions
PO'ed PHX Ramper
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Why would you want to keep somebody with 14 years senority, when you could save SO much money by having people with only 2 years senority around. That's common sense. That has always been the America West way.... Either way, before the unions started coming in, everybody was paid dirt for HP.
[quote name='PO'ed PHX Ramper' post='540230' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:57 AM']Either way, before the unions started coming in, everybody was paid dirt for HP.[/quote]
sky high states: Did you just say........"WAS" paid dirt?
only stating opinions
sky high states: Did you just say........"WAS" paid dirt?
only stating opinions
Reserve is reserve - midnight to midnight for how ever many days you are on duty. No shifts.
Call out is 90 minutes for quick calls.
Expect to get a quick call at 2 a.m. for an international trip.
Future starts calling at 3 p.m. for the next day and continues until all trips are covered. You can get a trip or OPR (Sit at the airport for 4 hours). No trip just means you are still on reserve. It is possible to get released on your last reserve duty day.
Reserve on the East can be 20ish years.
galley princess
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Longtime lurker, never posted, but I always wondered why this problem is so intractable?
My version of the answer: once you get off the abysmal life destroying system, you never want to go back, hence the absolute rejection of Rotating Reserve. Any answer will have to just accept that Reserve rotation needs to be taken off of the table. It doesn't make it right, fair or otherwise, it's just a fact. (why? Because it will never pass. I will not vote away my hair's breath of a block, and I am the population most sympathetic to you.)
How about an analysis of what would happen if -what I think is the general thinking in the negotiating committee's mind- these occur:
Reserve guarantee : 80hrs.
LTO : still in place but limited to the last 5-10hrs.
12-13 days off per month.
Merging of the ETB and AIL; ie automate the bloody thing, make time -time.
Re-instatement of the International Division: thus eliminating the need for shifts. (and addressing the multitude of other problems, but that's another post).
Of course, this is just an opinion and my humble one at that. Much appreciation for the kind (and gentle) reading of my first post.
GP
My version of the answer: once you get off the abysmal life destroying system, you never want to go back, hence the absolute rejection of Rotating Reserve. Any answer will have to just accept that Reserve rotation needs to be taken off of the table. It doesn't make it right, fair or otherwise, it's just a fact. (why? Because it will never pass. I will not vote away my hair's breath of a block, and I am the population most sympathetic to you.)
How about an analysis of what would happen if -what I think is the general thinking in the negotiating committee's mind- these occur:
Reserve guarantee : 80hrs.
LTO : still in place but limited to the last 5-10hrs.
12-13 days off per month.
Merging of the ETB and AIL; ie automate the bloody thing, make time -time.
Re-instatement of the International Division: thus eliminating the need for shifts. (and addressing the multitude of other problems, but that's another post).
Of course, this is just an opinion and my humble one at that. Much appreciation for the kind (and gentle) reading of my first post.
GP
Welcome galley princess!
I like the ideas except the reinstatement of the international division. I was in the international division and thought it was the most retarded thing ever. For the company- why maintain a seperate base of F/As when they can just be qualified for everything? Especially in CLT, have a base for one flight? That is seriously dumb. Why have people sitting around for 20 flights (PHL), or 1 flight (CLT) that you can't use for the hundreds of other daily trips... and paying them all a highly hourly wage to be an 'international' person sitting at home? No...
Secondly, we are not exactly Pan Am crisscrossing the globe performing complex services on 747s. We have twenty widebodies and some 757s to 20 cities in Europe. The services we perform in both classes are on par with other airlines (and our former) transcon product. If someone can't figure out how to use the duty free machine or IFE systems they should not be allowed out in public, much less responsible for people's lives. If you are based in Philly, that's the transatlantic gateway, so that's the type of flying you do... if you like domestic, CLT, Shuttle DCA etc... All F/As should be trained for all aircraft and service regardless of base- when you start 'dividing' things you start to get in trouble with contracts changing and seniority not honored.
My proposal would be shifts of reserve. I believe west has this, and the MDA contract as well. Two shifts of reserve a day- R1 4am-4pm, and R2 4pm-4am. If you are on R1, expect a call at 6am. If you are on R2 be prepared for that returning Venice call at 2am.
As far as rotating reserve, who cares if people walk around saying "that will never pass"? Ok, how about we all say, well, a contract without it will never pass. Big whoop! Our F/As are full of sh*t when it comes to voting anyway. Similar to national politics, most of them don't even vote, and obviously those who do make some pretty dodgy choices. Let Mike Flores say that to me so I can laugh at him. Rotating reserve is pretty much industry standard. The US East people need to realize that our next few contracts, which will be through mergers, will be more like other contracts instead of the odd, Carol Austin style contract we have now. Things like the bid sheet are gone. Like I said earlier, the group has made itself insignificant- not only are we half the size we once were (partially our own fault- give up all to protect the top mentality), the group that benefits from these things is now smaller than the group who will not.
So, they need to get over themselves.
My rough proposal:
* Rotating reserve, or access days, up to 20 years. Our current membership allows 20 year reserves full time right now, so how can they say a month of reserve a year is unacceptable? Ithink the idea is 20 year reserves are ok as long as it's not in your base. I'm sure PIT reserves would agree.
* 2 shifts of reserve as described above, R1 and R2
* 80 hour guarantee
* 4 hour callout.
* 6 hour OPR. There would be at least 6 OPRS at the airport on shifts throughout the day, dependent on times trips leave from that domicile. Pay would be 5 hours. This allows a 4 hour callout time, which gives F/As much more flexibility in living arrangements.
* Who cares where you are if we don't need you. If I'm US Airways, I don't care if you are hitchhiking the Kansas plains or swimming in the Gulf of Mexico while you are on call. I don't care if you come to work on Septa, US Airways, or paraglide off a hot air balloon. Just be there at check in. Otherwise, who cares if you are in base or not. Only adults are allowed to work here. Your job is not to sit in a house with 30 people in Essington looking at a computer and arguing about who's turn it is to walk to Wawa. Your job is to be available to show up for check-in when you are called. If you don't, you are disciplined up to and including termination. Simple. Stop chasing people you aren't using to see if they are in base. A four callout would eliminate a lot of this silliness anyway.
* Call in. Another reserve option I'd have- obviously a senior reserve option- is call-in. Leave a list, then call at 4pm the night before and find out if you have a trip, OPR, or are released. Easy. You have the rest of the day and possibly the next one to get to base. This would obviously be held by the most senior reserves- likely those on thier month of reserve rotation. Hmmm... calling the night before to see if you have a trip or got the one you wanted- isn't that sort of similar to riding the bid sheet and such? That's not something a flight atendant can put up with for ONE month out of the year? Keep in mind the most senior would also bid to do thier reserve month in a month no one flies. Hmmm, 80 hours at topped out pay to not work a single leg or have to come to base? Maybe once or twice a month? That's like being on a 20 hour option but paid for 80. You'd think our folks would be all over that.
* More flexibility in trading. As long as we're legal, why can't we trade trips? Or final legs if someone is commuting? If I'm getting laid in Fresno and Patrick wants to go to the furniture show in Greensboro, what difference is it to the company if we swap?
* Better computer system. If you're an 80's child like me you'll remember playing Oregon Trail in school. Remember? That's what CATCREW reminds me of... Option 18... oh no! I've lost 74 bullets and 2 oxen... and Amy has dysentary! There is much better software available that provides the company and the flight attendant with more real-time information.
I like the ideas except the reinstatement of the international division. I was in the international division and thought it was the most retarded thing ever. For the company- why maintain a seperate base of F/As when they can just be qualified for everything? Especially in CLT, have a base for one flight? That is seriously dumb. Why have people sitting around for 20 flights (PHL), or 1 flight (CLT) that you can't use for the hundreds of other daily trips... and paying them all a highly hourly wage to be an 'international' person sitting at home? No...
Secondly, we are not exactly Pan Am crisscrossing the globe performing complex services on 747s. We have twenty widebodies and some 757s to 20 cities in Europe. The services we perform in both classes are on par with other airlines (and our former) transcon product. If someone can't figure out how to use the duty free machine or IFE systems they should not be allowed out in public, much less responsible for people's lives. If you are based in Philly, that's the transatlantic gateway, so that's the type of flying you do... if you like domestic, CLT, Shuttle DCA etc... All F/As should be trained for all aircraft and service regardless of base- when you start 'dividing' things you start to get in trouble with contracts changing and seniority not honored.
My proposal would be shifts of reserve. I believe west has this, and the MDA contract as well. Two shifts of reserve a day- R1 4am-4pm, and R2 4pm-4am. If you are on R1, expect a call at 6am. If you are on R2 be prepared for that returning Venice call at 2am.
As far as rotating reserve, who cares if people walk around saying "that will never pass"? Ok, how about we all say, well, a contract without it will never pass. Big whoop! Our F/As are full of sh*t when it comes to voting anyway. Similar to national politics, most of them don't even vote, and obviously those who do make some pretty dodgy choices. Let Mike Flores say that to me so I can laugh at him. Rotating reserve is pretty much industry standard. The US East people need to realize that our next few contracts, which will be through mergers, will be more like other contracts instead of the odd, Carol Austin style contract we have now. Things like the bid sheet are gone. Like I said earlier, the group has made itself insignificant- not only are we half the size we once were (partially our own fault- give up all to protect the top mentality), the group that benefits from these things is now smaller than the group who will not.
So, they need to get over themselves.
My rough proposal:
* Rotating reserve, or access days, up to 20 years. Our current membership allows 20 year reserves full time right now, so how can they say a month of reserve a year is unacceptable? Ithink the idea is 20 year reserves are ok as long as it's not in your base. I'm sure PIT reserves would agree.
* 2 shifts of reserve as described above, R1 and R2
* 80 hour guarantee
* 4 hour callout.
* 6 hour OPR. There would be at least 6 OPRS at the airport on shifts throughout the day, dependent on times trips leave from that domicile. Pay would be 5 hours. This allows a 4 hour callout time, which gives F/As much more flexibility in living arrangements.
* Who cares where you are if we don't need you. If I'm US Airways, I don't care if you are hitchhiking the Kansas plains or swimming in the Gulf of Mexico while you are on call. I don't care if you come to work on Septa, US Airways, or paraglide off a hot air balloon. Just be there at check in. Otherwise, who cares if you are in base or not. Only adults are allowed to work here. Your job is not to sit in a house with 30 people in Essington looking at a computer and arguing about who's turn it is to walk to Wawa. Your job is to be available to show up for check-in when you are called. If you don't, you are disciplined up to and including termination. Simple. Stop chasing people you aren't using to see if they are in base. A four callout would eliminate a lot of this silliness anyway.
* Call in. Another reserve option I'd have- obviously a senior reserve option- is call-in. Leave a list, then call at 4pm the night before and find out if you have a trip, OPR, or are released. Easy. You have the rest of the day and possibly the next one to get to base. This would obviously be held by the most senior reserves- likely those on thier month of reserve rotation. Hmmm... calling the night before to see if you have a trip or got the one you wanted- isn't that sort of similar to riding the bid sheet and such? That's not something a flight atendant can put up with for ONE month out of the year? Keep in mind the most senior would also bid to do thier reserve month in a month no one flies. Hmmm, 80 hours at topped out pay to not work a single leg or have to come to base? Maybe once or twice a month? That's like being on a 20 hour option but paid for 80. You'd think our folks would be all over that.
* More flexibility in trading. As long as we're legal, why can't we trade trips? Or final legs if someone is commuting? If I'm getting laid in Fresno and Patrick wants to go to the furniture show in Greensboro, what difference is it to the company if we swap?
* Better computer system. If you're an 80's child like me you'll remember playing Oregon Trail in school. Remember? That's what CATCREW reminds me of... Option 18... oh no! I've lost 74 bullets and 2 oxen... and Amy has dysentary! There is much better software available that provides the company and the flight attendant with more real-time information.
[quote name='EMBFA' date='Nov 4 2007, 10:40 AM' post='540269'
My proposal would be shifts of reserve. I believe west has this, and the MDA contract as well. Two shifts of reserve a day- R1 4am-4pm, and R2 4pm-4am. If you are on R1, expect a call at 6am. If you are on R2 be prepared for that returning Venice call at 2am.
As far as rotating reserve, who cares if people walk around saying "that will never pass"? Ok, how about we all say, well, a contract without it will never pass. Big whoop! Our F/As are full of sh*t when it comes to voting anyway. Similar to national politics, most of them don't even vote, and obviously those who do make some pretty dodgy choices. Let Mike Flores say that to me so I can laugh at him. Rotating reserve is pretty much industry standard. The US East people need to realize that our next few contracts, which will be through mergers, will be more like other contracts instead of the odd, Carol Austin style contract we have now. Things like the bid sheet are gone. Like I said earlier, the group has made itself insignificant- not only are we half the size we once were (partially our own fault- give up all to protect the top mentality), the group that benefits from these things is now smaller than the group who will not.
So, they need to get over themselves.
My rough proposal:
* Rotating reserve, or access days, up to 20 years. Our current membership allows 20 year reserves full time right now, so how can they say a month of reserve a year is unacceptable? Ithink the idea is 20 year reserves are ok as long as it's not in your base. I'm sure PIT reserves would agree.
* 2 shifts of reserve as described above, R1 and R2
* 80 hour guarantee
* 4 hour callout.
* 6 hour OPR. There would be at least 6 OPRS at the airport on shifts throughout the day, dependent on times trips leave from that domicile. Pay would be 5 hours. This allows a 4 hour callout time, which gives F/As much more flexibility in living arrangements.
* Who cares where you are if we don't need you. If I'm US Airways, I don't care if you are hitchhiking the Kansas plains or swimming in the Gulf of Mexico while you are on call. I don't care if you come to work on Septa, US Airways, or paraglide off a hot air balloon. Just be there at check in. Otherwise, who cares if you are in base or not. Only adults are allowed to work here. Your job is not to sit in a house with 30 people in Essington looking at a computer and arguing about who's turn it is to walk to Wawa. Your job is to be available to show up for check-in when you are called. If you don't, you are disciplined up to and including termination. Simple. Stop chasing people you aren't using to see if they are in base. A four callout would eliminate a lot of this silliness anyway.
* Call in. Another reserve option I'd have- obviously a senior reserve option- is call-in. Leave a list, then call at 4pm the night before and find out if you have a trip, OPR, or are released. Easy. You have the rest of the day and possibly the next one to get to base. This would obviously be held by the most senior reserves- likely those on thier month of reserve rotation. Hmmm... calling the night before to see if you have a trip or got the one you wanted- isn't that sort of similar to riding the bid sheet and such? That's not something a flight atendant can put up with for ONE month out of the year? Keep in mind the most senior would also bid to do thier reserve month in a month no one flies. Hmmm, 80 hours at topped out pay to not work a single leg or have to come to base? Maybe once or twice a month? That's like being on a 20 hour option but paid for 80. You'd think our folks would be all over that.
* More flexibility in trading. As long as we're legal, why can't we trade trips? Or final legs if someone is commuting? If I'm getting laid in Fresno and Patrick wants to go to the furniture show in Greensboro, what difference is it to the company if we swap?
* Better computer system. If you're an 80's child like me you'll remember playing Oregon Trail in school. Remember? That's what CATCREW reminds me of... Option 18... oh no! I've lost 74 bullets and 2 oxen... and Amy has dysentary! There is much better software available that provides the company and the flight attendant with more real-time information.
[/quote]
Here! Here! Love your ideas-well thought out! Now for a contract!!!
Love your ide
My proposal would be shifts of reserve. I believe west has this, and the MDA contract as well. Two shifts of reserve a day- R1 4am-4pm, and R2 4pm-4am. If you are on R1, expect a call at 6am. If you are on R2 be prepared for that returning Venice call at 2am.
As far as rotating reserve, who cares if people walk around saying "that will never pass"? Ok, how about we all say, well, a contract without it will never pass. Big whoop! Our F/As are full of sh*t when it comes to voting anyway. Similar to national politics, most of them don't even vote, and obviously those who do make some pretty dodgy choices. Let Mike Flores say that to me so I can laugh at him. Rotating reserve is pretty much industry standard. The US East people need to realize that our next few contracts, which will be through mergers, will be more like other contracts instead of the odd, Carol Austin style contract we have now. Things like the bid sheet are gone. Like I said earlier, the group has made itself insignificant- not only are we half the size we once were (partially our own fault- give up all to protect the top mentality), the group that benefits from these things is now smaller than the group who will not.
So, they need to get over themselves.
My rough proposal:
* Rotating reserve, or access days, up to 20 years. Our current membership allows 20 year reserves full time right now, so how can they say a month of reserve a year is unacceptable? Ithink the idea is 20 year reserves are ok as long as it's not in your base. I'm sure PIT reserves would agree.
* 2 shifts of reserve as described above, R1 and R2
* 80 hour guarantee
* 4 hour callout.
* 6 hour OPR. There would be at least 6 OPRS at the airport on shifts throughout the day, dependent on times trips leave from that domicile. Pay would be 5 hours. This allows a 4 hour callout time, which gives F/As much more flexibility in living arrangements.
* Who cares where you are if we don't need you. If I'm US Airways, I don't care if you are hitchhiking the Kansas plains or swimming in the Gulf of Mexico while you are on call. I don't care if you come to work on Septa, US Airways, or paraglide off a hot air balloon. Just be there at check in. Otherwise, who cares if you are in base or not. Only adults are allowed to work here. Your job is not to sit in a house with 30 people in Essington looking at a computer and arguing about who's turn it is to walk to Wawa. Your job is to be available to show up for check-in when you are called. If you don't, you are disciplined up to and including termination. Simple. Stop chasing people you aren't using to see if they are in base. A four callout would eliminate a lot of this silliness anyway.
* Call in. Another reserve option I'd have- obviously a senior reserve option- is call-in. Leave a list, then call at 4pm the night before and find out if you have a trip, OPR, or are released. Easy. You have the rest of the day and possibly the next one to get to base. This would obviously be held by the most senior reserves- likely those on thier month of reserve rotation. Hmmm... calling the night before to see if you have a trip or got the one you wanted- isn't that sort of similar to riding the bid sheet and such? That's not something a flight atendant can put up with for ONE month out of the year? Keep in mind the most senior would also bid to do thier reserve month in a month no one flies. Hmmm, 80 hours at topped out pay to not work a single leg or have to come to base? Maybe once or twice a month? That's like being on a 20 hour option but paid for 80. You'd think our folks would be all over that.
* More flexibility in trading. As long as we're legal, why can't we trade trips? Or final legs if someone is commuting? If I'm getting laid in Fresno and Patrick wants to go to the furniture show in Greensboro, what difference is it to the company if we swap?
* Better computer system. If you're an 80's child like me you'll remember playing Oregon Trail in school. Remember? That's what CATCREW reminds me of... Option 18... oh no! I've lost 74 bullets and 2 oxen... and Amy has dysentary! There is much better software available that provides the company and the flight attendant with more real-time information.
[/quote]
Here! Here! Love your ideas-well thought out! Now for a contract!!!
Love your ide
Okay, sorry, but you get my point I'm sure- it's pointless to have a seperate crew base for two flights a day. Forgot they still do FRA. Off topic I wonder if they could restart CDG with a 757?
I'd like to hear some ideas on reserve from our west F/As. The F/As that have been east and west must have a lot of insight too.
Furthermore, how do you go about finding out if these items and others are no-cost or little-cost items to the company? And how do you override the union folks and have them put things on the table whether they personally want them or not? I pay the same dues they do and am just as much of a member. They are there to represent ME as well as thier friends. How dare they laugh at a member, or dismiss an idea that is standard throughout other AFA carriers? The more I think about it the more annoyed I am.
I may have to go meet this Mike Flores. Watch him laugh at me.
I'd like to hear some ideas on reserve from our west F/As. The F/As that have been east and west must have a lot of insight too.
Furthermore, how do you go about finding out if these items and others are no-cost or little-cost items to the company? And how do you override the union folks and have them put things on the table whether they personally want them or not? I pay the same dues they do and am just as much of a member. They are there to represent ME as well as thier friends. How dare they laugh at a member, or dismiss an idea that is standard throughout other AFA carriers? The more I think about it the more annoyed I am.
I may have to go meet this Mike Flores. Watch him laugh at me.
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