Official Delta AFA flight attendant group!

[LukeAisleWalker]

and what it is..is a mistake..because what appears is starting to happen (while doing a surfing/reading of various sites is simply.. debates are turning into bickering which in turn is starting to divide the group..



if people do not have their minds made up at this point, they never will..


but that vote or (non-vote) matters..



I think people in general are getting tired of the delays..(especially since a part of our training begins in June, the election should have been completed prior to the commencement of training, IMO)

Dignity, there has been "bickering" during all the previous Delta campaigns, perceived delay or no delay. There was an anti-AFA group called Freedom Force back during the 2001/02 election and you should have seen their message board!! There are always going to be strong opinions on both sides.
You never answered my question about NW f/a's. Everyone's mind is made up already??

BTW, according to the post on the FB website, Greg P. was denied today (his hearing was yesterday) by the Review Board. Says he can now appeal to S. Gordon.

 

[BABABOOY]

You do have to sign up, but it's not too big of deal (it's free, BTW).

1. Go to www.facebook.com

2. Sign up.

3. Be amazed at how much time you spend on there.

Thanks Kevin, not sure if I am ready to sign up.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I recently has a AFA person on my flight. She was taking a voluntary survey (scale of 1-4) on
whether we wanted a Union. 3 stated 1 (not interested) 2 stated 4 and two of us stated 2 lol...
Anyway she commented that they are looking at the END of Summer vote and a Fall result. Also
acknowledge that they are toning down the over zealous afa f/a's and also realize f/a's are
not happy with the delay. It was a very respectful discussion.

Uh-oh. I didn't think you were supposed to discuss unionization in the actual workplace--I thought it was break areas only.

btw. how do you find the myface board and do you have to sign up?

Kev gave the correct info but remember, ya can't hide behind the puppy dog BB thing there...no anonymous postings. I'm just sayin...
Well, wait a minute. On the NoWay site that would be because they have a rule that you have to post a face picture and real name and then they have to check and make sure you are on the combined DL/NW seniority list.
On the World Class board, I don't think they have rules that strict.

 

[BoeingBoy]

At the bottomw it mentions that the MEC supports this as well. It is a resolution, yes.

It states...

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the DAL MEC fully supports the DAL Flight Attendants in their right to organize and select representation of their own choosing.

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED the DAL MEC is committed to the ideals that Delta Air Lines employees can be both pro-union and pro-Delta.


The DAL MEC is the Master executive council...

Don't know how AFA handles resolutions brought forward at the local level for possible consideration by the MEC, but with ALPA there are several steps involved in getting a local resolution considered at the MEC level.

1 - The resolution is written as it will be presented to the MEC. Changes in wording are not allowed, although substitute resolutions can be brought forward at the local level and when/if the MEC considers a resolution that originated at the local level.

2 - If the resolution passes at the local level, it is put on the agenda for a scheduled MEC meeting.

3 - The reps from the LEC that initiated/passed the resolution present it at the MEC meeting and it is discussed.

4 - Assuming that no substitute resolution is offered or the resolution is not tabled, there is a vote of the MEC.

5 - If the resolution passes, it then becomes a MEC resolution.

So the language in the resolution mentioning the MEC does not mean that the MEC has even seen the resolution yet, much less passed it. It is written that way since it may ultimately become an official MEC resolution. It being under the LEC letterhead is the clue that the MEC hasn't taken action on this resolution yet, at least at the time it was posted.

Jim

 

[Dignity]

Everyone's mind is made up already??

if people have not made up their minds at this point, then I dont know what else to say!

either people are for the idea of representation or they are not!

this is not such a difficult choice to make that it takes a year to think about...

 

[natecobb]

if people have not made up their minds at this point, then I dont know what else to say!

either people are for the idea of representation or they are not!

this is not such a difficult choice to make that it takes a year to think about...

No matter who they get to represent them one side is going to be unhappy because you can't make everyone happy in this business.

 

[Dignity]

No matter who they get to represent them one side is going to be unhappy because you can't make everyone happy in this business.

that is very true.

however..

what can happen is to have an election and determine how the majority feels and obtain resolution so we can move forward...(either way)

at minimum seniority integration should be addressed right now(also an election)...since training is beginning in June, we are wearing their collection and aligning services and especially since the union really isnt doing anything..

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

if people have not made up their minds at this point, then I dont know what else to say!

either people are for the idea of representation or they are not!

this is not such a difficult choice to make that it takes a year to think about...

Dignity, I understand where you're coming from. I feel the same way, but there are people who, believe it or not, are torn and are what are termed "fence sitters." I think there are less of these now than during AFA's last two campaigns at DL.
Many times there are situations that arise that change people's mind (causing them to fall one way or the other over the fence) like the drug-testing fiasco from 2000. Now, depending on the facts, I think the Greg P. incident has people asking questions. There are actually former supervisors who worked with management to thwart our 2000 campaign that are now very vocal union/contract supporters.
On the other side, there are a few former supporters who for various reasons have changed their minds because they either view AFA as ineffective (looking only at the concessionary contracts of NW and US and UA) or perhaps they look at AFA's dragging on the vote and refusing to meet with the DL Seniority Committee as an organization they don't want to be a part of.
To you and me, the choice may be crystal clear. For others (think of all our peers who fly a trip or two a month and aren't really invested in this job) it's something they rarely think about...at least on the DL side.
Bababooy, if I remember correctly, was once a "fence sitter". He/she might be a good person to ask about how they look at things.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity, I understand where you're coming from. I feel the same way, but there are people who, believe it or not, are torn and are what are termed "fence sitters."

after the second and now to be third attempt, honestly if people are still sitting on the fence, they arent going to budge.

On the other side, there are a few former supporters who for various reasons have changed their minds because they either view AFA as ineffective

unfortunately it appears that maybe the case, that perception is troublesome.. as we pay dues to resolve issues timely.

or perhaps they look at AFA's dragging on the vote and refusing to meet with the DL Seniority Committee as an organization they don't want to be a part of.

seniority needs to be addressed.

some good news is the new MEC President, she is one I believe to be effective..

 

[Dignity]

view AFA as ineffective (looking only at the concessionary contracts of NW and US and UA)

to be fair, in our case at NW, it was PFAA who gutted our contract not the AFA..(as they did slightly improve some aspects and our equity claim but didnt fully explain the claim until TA3, negotiated a buyout and included language to reinstate the Flight Attendants who honored AMFA picket lines)

 

[BABABOOY]

Dignity, I understand where you're coming from. I feel the same way, but there are people who, believe it or not, are torn and are what are termed "fence sitters." I think there are less of these now than during AFA's last two campaigns at DL.
Many times there are situations that arise that change people's mind (causing them to fall one way or the other over the fence) like the drug-testing fiasco from 2000. Now, depending on the facts, I think the Greg P. incident has people asking questions. There are actually former supervisors who worked with management to thwart our 2000 campaign that are now very vocal union/contract supporters.
On the other side, there are a few former supporters who for various reasons have changed their minds because they either view AFA as ineffective (looking only at the concessionary contracts of NW and US and UA) or perhaps they look at AFA's dragging on the vote and refusing to meet with the DL Seniority Committee as an organization they don't want to be a part of.
To you and me, the choice may be crystal clear. For others (think of all our peers who fly a trip or two a month and aren't really invested in this job) it's something they rarely think about...at least on the DL side.
Bababooy, if I remember correctly, was once a "fence sitter". He/she might be a good person to ask about how they look at things.

Yes I was/Am. And did I get a bashing on here. I think you summed up the rational quite nicely though. There is such a thing as those on the fence who are leaning one way or the other.
BTW I understand that Greg P was reinstated? And the F/A in the lav was fired? is this true?

 

[Kev3188]

BTW I understand that Greg P was reinstated? And the F/A in the lav was fired? is this true?

Not according to the latest update on the Facebook page...

"On April 18th, the Employee Review Panel denied Greg P****'s appeal for a thorough investigation into his claims of innocence. Greg must now make an appeal to Sandy Gordon. Please write to Joanne D. Smith, Julie Showers, Sandy Gordon and Steve E. Gorman in Greg's behalf'

 

[BABABOOY]

Not according to the latest update on the Facebook page...

"On April 18th, the Employee Review Panel denied Greg P****'s appeal for a thorough investigation into his claims of innocence. Greg must now make an appeal to Sandy Gordon. Please write to Joanne D. Smith, Julie Showers, Sandy Gordon and Steve E. Gorman in Greg's behalf'

Thanks Kevin, My last crew thought that he was reinstated. I am surprised this wasn't brought up at the last conference call.

 

[Dignity]

Yes I was/Am. And did I get a bashing on here. I think you summed up the rational quite nicely though.

you shouldnt take general comments personally..

There is such a thing as those on the fence who are leaning one way or the other.

for the most part I believe that the first time around, when it gets around at two, then three times, and people are still on the fence, they are probably going to stay there.. its the same organization attempting, not someone different..

is this true?

you know, to me, its really no ones business unless the ones involved choose to discuss an issue or choose not to, you know?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

you shouldnt take general comments personally..

Actually, Dignity they weren't really general comments. I will readily admit that I was one of the ones that gave BB "the business" last year about being on the fence. My frustration was based on all the things you have expressed--how come one can't figure this out. But since that time, I have learned that it's not my place to force someone's decision or berate them for their indecision. I found confirmation in that BB told the afa poll taker that he/she was a "2", meaning he/she leans towards no union (rather than truly being undecided) That is something that I wasn't sure of last year as I thought he/she was solidly on the fence until his/her comments became more negative towards AFA and then I knew he/she was not a true fencesitter. As has been said here before, most lean one way or the other.

for the most part I believe that the first time around, when it gets around at two, then three times, and people are still on the fence, they are probably going to stay there.. its the same organization attempting, not someone different..

Yes, and that's why when the ballot comes with the PIN # from the NMB it is so easy to just ignore it because you don't know what to do...ignoring it is basically a "no" vote. That's why I think everyone should have to vote YES or NO.

you know, to me, its really no ones business unless the ones involved choose to discuss an issue or choose not to, you know?

Yes, and no. When I have brought this topic up on the board, I have purposelly not written a full name. HOWEVER, this is our business as he is one of us and also, from what we know to this point, this is a serious violation of due process and our peers need to know that this could easily happen to them. From the FB accounts, it is my belief that G.P. has given his ok to this being out for others to know about from his detailed email account of what happened and the support group that has been formed on his behalf by other FAs. Again, for this board's purposes, it is not my place to reveal his actual identity as I don't know him, but the incident, disciplinary action, hearings, etc... is important for FAs to be aware of...as an example.