oil at 90 dollars,what plans does AA have 100 and above?

[FWAAA]

1000 new jobs! Wow!...as opposed to how many lost? :down: :down:

Dunno, Ed. Perhaps you could post some data?

I realize it's easier to just skip the facts. Especially when the facts don't support uninformed opinions. 😀

 

[jimntx]

Funny you should mention computers, Jim. Just yesterday I came across news about the following:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHiO4x9...aLOWezewN9E-Daw

The new factory opens today. 1,000 employees? In Arizona? As big as 17 football fields. Yeah, you're right. Nobody makes computer parts here in the USA. 😀

The article goes on to say:
New factory in Israel, retooling a NEW MEXICO factory and retooling a Dresden factory.

I'm too lazy to look for other examples.

Sure, plenty of things are assembled here with foreign parts. And with automation, assembling things takes far fewer workers than it did 50 or 100 years ago. And many of our manufacturing jobs are in quiet, clean facilities instead of noisy, dirty, dangerous factories (think steel mills of 50-100 years ago).

For me, it's got nothing to do with US politics. We live in a world economy where some people make things and other people provide services. Some of the people making things do it for people living thousands of miles away. Those things they make are placed on boats or airplanes and quickly moved where they're needed.

Ok, everybody, back to your "The USA doesn't manufacture or export anything anymore" circle jerk.

Did I say that there are no computer parts made in the US? And, the memory chip is only one part of the computer anyway. Of course, Intel can afford to manufacture them here in the U.S. The only competition they have for the most part is AMD which is a midget compared to Intel. When you have a virtual monopoly, you don't have to care about cost of production as much. Kind of like the electric companies used to be--"If you don't like our service, may we suggest you cook on a wood stove and read by lantern light."

And, those auto parts and vehicles that are being exported? To where? Mexico for final assembly before being brought back for sale? Where else in the world are American automobiles wanted? Judging from the parlous financial condition of Ford, GM, and Chrysler, I'd say they are not even wanted by Americans in sufficient quantities to keep the manufacturers out of the red.


OK, FWAAA back to your fantasy land of everything is A-OK in the old US of A.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Dunno, Ed. Perhaps you could post some data?

I realize it's easier to just skip the facts. Especially when the facts don't support uninformed opinions. 😀

Probably none lost since they consider the assembly of Hamburgers at BK and McDonalds part of the manufacturing sector. 😀

 

[Bob Owens]

For me, it's got nothing to do with US politics. We live in a world economy where some people make things and other people provide services. Some of the people making things do it for people living thousands of miles away. Those things they make are placed on boats or airplanes and quickly moved where they're needed.

Which is why a declining dollar probably will not do much to change the trade imbalance or boost the economy. The things that we buy from abroad are not made here so people will either continue to buy these foriegn made goods, leaving less money for other domestically produced goods and services or they will do without. A few industries may benifit like steel or coal but American workers will likely see no increase in either jobs or living standards.

When you have a negative trade balance it means that wealth is leaving your country. The trade imbalance. Your own figures put the imbalance at nearly 2 to 1.

Do you really think they said "Hey the dollar is low, lets build a huge factory in Arizona"?

 

[jimntx]

Do you really think they said "Hey the dollar is low, lets build a huge factory in Arizona"?

Probably more like "Hey, if we build the plant in Arizona we can hire people for minimum wage or not much more. If we build anywhere near our headquarters in northern California, we'll have to pay a living wage."

Chip manufacture is not a highly-skilled job. Machines do most of the work. They have to be made with machines. Humans are not capable of the micro-precision work needed to create a computer chip. The workers just make sure the area is kept sterile and the machines are running.

 

[Ed Norton]

Dunno, Ed. Perhaps you could post some data?

I realize it's easier to just skip the facts. Especially when the facts don't support uninformed opinions. 😀

No data needs to be posted and you know it. Just go to your local retail store and try buying anything tangible made in the U.S. You are just parroting the "globalism is good" nonsense that you hear in the corporate controlled media and from the ruling elite. You may have your stock portfolio, your degree and perhaps be higher up the economic ladder than some of us; so naturally you feel that you are part of the "in" crowd. You more than likely were not given what you have and worked hard to be were you are. That makes you one of "us," and when the shite hits the fan, you will get your fair spattering of afore mentioned matter.
Yes, globalism and the looting of the U.S. economy is good. Its good for an elite few who benefit from the deindustrializing of the United States and the exploitation of third world peoples. I have news for you: You are not part of that elite. Shill for the man all you want. It will get you nowhere.

 

[FWAAA]

No data needs to be posted and you know it. Just go to your local retail store and try buying anything tangible made in the U.S.

Funny you should mention that. Week and a half ago I bought some new camping equipment. New Coleman propane grill/stove and new Coleman Belt Cooler (updated version of their long-selling metal cooler for the last 50 years) and both were assembled in the USA with domestic and foreign parts. Coleman tent was manufactured in Sri Lanka, however. Flourescent lantern was, of course, made in China. Just recently installed new HVAC system - assembled in USA. Installed by very expensive USA-based HVAC contractor in LA.

I realize that many (most?) consumer goods are now manufactured somewhere else. The examples above are the only big-ticket retail items I can recall lately that were assembled in this country. Industrial and manufacturing employment is a much smaller percentage of the workforce than in the past. Part of that is due to automation (which I was always told was a good thing) and much of it is due to the fact that the factories are now located in foreign countries.

Nevertheless, the US economy continues to soak up nearly all of the high school and college grads each year. And obviously, each and every one of them goes to work at McDonalds, BK and Wal-Mart. 😛

You are just parroting the "globalism is good" nonsense that you hear in the corporate controlled media and from the ruling elite.

By the same token, aren't you just parroting the "globalism is the end of the world as we know it" nonsense with which someone has indoctrinated you? Tell you the truth, I can't pin it on any big group. Is it the DNC? Is it moveon.org? Is it Ross Perot?

Seriously, isn't it possible that our global economy isn't the end of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness in the USA? Isn't it possible that it's a good thing? Maybe I've simply witnessed the changes in our country and our economy over the past half century and concluded that the "globalism is bad" crowd are simply just today's Chicken Littles.

You may have your stock portfolio, your degree and perhaps be higher up the economic ladder than some of us; so naturally you feel that you are part of the "in" crowd. You more than likely were not given what you have and worked hard to be were you are. That makes you one of "us," and when the shite hits the fan, you will get your fair spattering of afore mentioned matter.

Yes, globalism and the looting of the U.S. economy is good. Its good for an elite few who benefit from the deindustrializing of the United States and the exploitation of third world peoples. I have news for you: You are not part of that elite. Shill for the man all you want. It will get you nowhere.

You may be right. If it's a bad thing, and it hits the fan, I've got plenty to lose. That will surely suck. But if it's not such a bad thing, I'll just keep on living life. Happily buying tickets on American Airlines. Flying to fun and exciting destinations. On airplanes flown and serviced by professionals. Underpaid and underappreciated professionals, that is.

 

[Ed Norton]

Funny you should mention that. Week and a half ago I bought some new camping equipment. New Coleman propane grill/stove and new Coleman Belt Cooler (updated version of their long-selling metal cooler for the last 50 years) and both were assembled in the USA with domestic and foreign parts. Coleman tent was manufactured in Sri Lanka, however. Flourescent lantern was, of course, made in China. Just recently installed new HVAC system - assembled in USA. Installed by very expensive USA-based HVAC contractor in LA.

I realize that many (most?) consumer goods are now manufactured somewhere else. The examples above are the only big-ticket retail items I can recall lately that were assembled in this country. Industrial and manufacturing employment is a much smaller percentage of the workforce than in the past. Part of that is due to automation (which I was always told was a good thing) and much of it is due to the fact that the factories are now located in foreign countries.

Nevertheless, the US economy continues to soak up nearly all of the high school and college grads each year. And obviously, each and every one of them goes to work at McDonalds, BK and Wal-Mart. 😛
By the same token, aren't you just parroting the "globalism is the end of the world as we know it" nonsense with which someone has indoctrinated you? Tell you the truth, I can't pin it on any big group. Is it the DNC? Is it moveon.org? Is it Ross Perot?

Seriously, isn't it possible that our global economy isn't the end of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness in the USA? Isn't it possible that it's a good thing? Maybe I've simply witnessed the changes in our country and our economy over the past half century and concluded that the "globalism is bad" crowd are simply just today's Chicken Littles.
You may be right. If it's a bad thing, and it hits the fan, I've got plenty to lose. That will surely suck. But if it's not such a bad thing, I'll just keep on living life. Happily buying tickets on American Airlines. Flying to fun and exciting destinations. On airplanes flown and serviced by professionals. Underpaid and underappreciated professionals, that is.

To quote Ronald Reagan, "well... there you go again." Your Coleman example is just like your 1000 jobs in Arizona. Yes there is still industry in this country but as you know, we used to have lots more of it.
You want examples, here's a few:
Textile industry. Aside from maybe some exclusive niche products, our clothing industry is gone.
Shoes. Same as above.
Refrigerators and other kitchen appliances, poof, gone!
Try buying an American made TV set or stereo equipment lately?
Toy industry. Want some lead with your Chinese Ken doll?
I remember when a Schwinn was a Schwinn, not a Szhwing!
Boeing contracts out to foreign manufactures diferent sections of their airplanes. While they are assembled in the U.S. they are made from foreign and U.S. parts.
You believe that because some goods are assembled here with foreign parts that makes it OK. Its great for Boeing's and other manufacturer's bottom line but not for those Americans that could be employed making the parts that are now imported. Again, only a few profit from globalization.
You wonder who indocrinated me, when it is you who still clings to the phony left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican paradigm that the ruling elite use to divide and conquer us. The ruling elites' propaganda machine, the corporate controlled media, hype up certain emotional hot button issues (abortion, prayer in school, gay rights, illegal immigrants, etc.) to keep us at each others throats, while their masters run game on us.
I am not a Demican nor a Republicrat. The same people control both parties; two sides of the same coin. Our political system is staged. You might as well be watching WWF!
I am not indoctrinated. I have awakened to some hard realities which 10 years ago I would have never believed.
Moveon.org? PLEASE! Try Alex Jones (Infowars.com)! I've also been inspired by Howard Zinn, Carrol Quigley, John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man), George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, John Locke, Karl Marx, even Jack London (The Iron Heel). Should I continue?
You think I'm nuts? Explain to me why Bill Clinton and Daddy Bush are seen palling around all the time.
Why that now the democrats control congress we are still bogged down in Iraq? Why have they not kept all their pre election promises?
Explain to me why Barbara Boxer, a California liberal Democrat, (a supposed friend of the working man and woman) was pushing for an expansion of the H1B visa program. H1B visas allow corporations to bring foreign educated workers to the United States (usually in the high tech industries) to work for lower wages than they would be paying U.S citizens or resident aliens. These foreign workers undermine and under cut those college graduates which you claim corporate America "soaks up."
Not only is corporate America importing foreign parts but also foreign workers. You probably think that is a good thing. At least the work is done in the U.S. Right? :down:

 

[UAL_TECH]

To quote Ronald Reagan, "well... there you go again." Your Coleman example is just like your 1000 jobs in Arizona. Yes there is still industry in this country but as you know, we used to have lots more of it.
You want examples, here's a few:
Textile industry. Aside from maybe some exclusive niche products, our clothing industry is gone.
Shoes. Same as above.
Refrigerators and other kitchen appliances, poof, gone!
Try buying an American made TV set or stereo equipment lately?
Toy industry. Want some lead with your Chinese Ken doll?
I remember when a Swinn was a Swinn, not a Szhwing!
Boeing contracts out to foreign manufactures diferent sections of their airplanes. While they are assembled in the U.S. they are made from foreign and U.S. parts.
You believe that because some goods are assembled here with foreign parts that makes it OK. Its great for Boeing's and other manufacturer's bottom line but not for those Americans that could be employed making the parts that are now imported. Again, only a few profit from globalization.
You wonder who indocrinated me, when it is you who still clings to the phony left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican paradigm that the ruling elite use to divide and conquer us. The ruling elites' propaganda machine, the corporate controlled media, hype up certain emotional hot button issues (abortion, prayer in school, gay rights, illegal immigrants, etc.) to keep us at each others throats, while their masters run game on us.
I am not a Demican nor a Republicrat. The same people control both parties; two sides of the same coin. Our political system is staged. You might as well be watching WWF!
I am not indoctrinated. I have awakened to some hard realities which 10 years ago I would have never believed.
Moveon.org? PLEASE! Try Alex Jones (Infowars.com)! I've also been inspired by Howard Zinn, Carrol Quigley, John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man), George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, John Locke, Karl Marx, even Jack London (The Iron Heel). Should I continue?
You think I'm nuts? Explain to me why Bill Clinton and Daddy Bush are seen palling around all the time.
Why that now the democrats control congress we are still bogged down in Iraq? Why have they not kept all their pre election promises?
Explain to me why Barbara Boxer, a California liberal Democrat, (a supposed friend of the working man and woman) was pushing for an expansion of the H1B visa program. H1B visas allow corporations to bring foreign educated workers to the United States (usually in the high tech industries) to work for lower wages than they would be paying U.S citizens or resident aliens. These foreign workers undermine and under cut those college graduates which you claim corporate America "soaks up."
Not only is corporate America importing foreign parts but also foreign workers. You probably think that is a good thing. At least the work is done in the U.S. Right? :down:

I used to work in SA in the 80's and scoffed at how their country did not produce anything. Even in a land of sand, they imported it for the desalinization plants. Now I look at the US today and no longer scoff at the SA's.

B) UT

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

. On airplanes flown and serviced by professionals. Underpaid and underappreciated professionals, that is.

I have to agree with you for once
But you did fail to mention pissed off and disgrtuntled

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

To quote Ronald Reagan, "well... there you go again." Your Coleman example is just like your 1000 jobs in Arizona. Yes there is still industry in this country but as you know, we used to have lots more of it.
You want examples, here's a few:
Textile industry. Aside from maybe some exclusive niche products, our clothing industry is gone.
Shoes. Same as above.
Refrigerators and other kitchen appliances, poof, gone!
Try buying an American made TV set or stereo equipment lately?
Toy industry. Want some lead with your Chinese Ken doll?
I remember when a Schwinn was a Schwinn, not a Szhwing!
Boeing contracts out to foreign manufactures diferent sections of their airplanes. While they are assembled in the U.S. they are made from foreign and U.S. parts.
You believe that because some goods are assembled here with foreign parts that makes it OK. Its great for Boeing's and other manufacturer's bottom line but not for those Americans that could be employed making the parts that are now imported. Again, only a few profit from globalization.
You wonder who indocrinated me, when it is you who still clings to the phony left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican paradigm that the ruling elite use to divide and conquer us. The ruling elites' propaganda machine, the corporate controlled media, hype up certain emotional hot button issues (abortion, prayer in school, gay rights, illegal immigrants, etc.) to keep us at each others throats, while their masters run game on us.
I am not a Demican nor a Republicrat. The same people control both parties; two sides of the same coin. Our political system is staged. You might as well be watching WWF!
I am not indoctrinated. I have awakened to some hard realities which 10 years ago I would have never believed.
Moveon.org? PLEASE! Try Alex Jones (Infowars.com)! I've also been inspired by Howard Zinn, Carrol Quigley, John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man), George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, John Locke, Karl Marx, even Jack London (The Iron Heel). Should I continue?
You think I'm nuts? Explain to me why Bill Clinton and Daddy Bush are seen palling around all the time.
Why that now the democrats control congress we are still bogged down in Iraq? Why have they not kept all their pre election promises?
Explain to me why Barbara Boxer, a California liberal Democrat, (a supposed friend of the working man and woman) was pushing for an expansion of the H1B visa program. H1B visas allow corporations to bring foreign educated workers to the United States (usually in the high tech industries) to work for lower wages than they would be paying U.S citizens or resident aliens. These foreign workers undermine and under cut those college graduates which you claim corporate America "soaks up."
Not only is corporate America importing foreign parts but also foreign workers. You probably think that is a good thing. At least the work is done in the U.S. Right? :down:

Some one was telling me the other day that the military wanted to armor plate the bottom of the Hummers with steel.
After much searching it turns out they couldnt find anyone in the USA to come up with the steel and the ability to do the job. I believe it is being done overseas somwhere.
I dont know if it is 100 percent true but I would have to believe it
:down:

 

[UAL_TECH]

Check this chart. The vertical axis is cents/gallon.

Keep in mind two things.....

1 - "crack spread" is something of a misnomer. Since it is the difference between the spot price of West Texas Intermediate crude (FOB Cushing, OK) and the average spot prices of jet fuel (FOB Gulf Coast, NY, and Los Angeles ports), it includes transportation costs as well as refining costs.

2 - WTI is one of a handful of light, sweet crude grades (low specific gravity and low sulfur content) so is one of the highest priced crudes. Refineries use a mixture of different crude grades, so the refinery cost of crude is less than the price of WTI. Therefore, the actual "crack spread" is greater than indicated. In Aug, the latest data available for refinery crude cost, refineries paid about 5 cents/gal less for crude than the WTI price.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks (again)

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[777 fixer]

Moveon.org? PLEASE! Try Alex Jones (Infowars.com)! I've also been inspired by Howard Zinn, Carrol Quigley, John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man), George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, John Locke, Karl Marx, even Jack London (The Iron Heel). Should I continue?

Alex Jones?! He's nothing more than an unbalanced charlaton who preys on the weak minded. Seems like you are one of his victims. Amazing how people like you say that we need to "ask hard quesions" yet you will buy into any rant someone like Alex Jones puts out. Talk about the blind following the blind. So your inspired by Karl Marx? Are you inspired by Anton Drexler as well?

 

[eolesen]

You think I'm nuts? Explain to me why Bill Clinton and Daddy Bush are seen palling around all the time.

Because they're elder statesmen who have nothing left to prove. Contrast that with Jimmy Carter, who is still trying to make people forget about how successful he was using diplomacy with thugs and barbarians (one of which is now president of Iran), and how it was the fear of how Reagan was going to deal with them that ultimately caused the hostages to be released. But I digress.....

Why that now the democrats control congress we are still bogged down in Iraq? Why have they not kept all their pre election promises?

C'mon, you say you're educated and informed. You should know by now that campaign promises are an empty bag, regardless who is making them. That's why you have to look at the individual and not what party they belong to or what they're promising to buy votes.

Plus, only a real idiot would have believed the DNC's promises to get out of Iraq. They played on anti-Bush sentiments (no doubt fueled by the media's contempt for the current administration), and people voted based on emotion rather than having the facts. Sounds a lot like union elections... the majority don't vote on the facts -- they vote based on fear-mongering, uncertainty, and doubt...

 

[local 12 proud]

Because they're elder statesmen who have nothing left to prove. Contrast that with Jimmy Carter, who is still trying to make people forget about how successful he was using diplomacy with thugs and barbarians (one of which is now president of Iran), and how it was the fear of how Reagan was going to deal with them that ultimately caused the hostages to be released. But I digress.....
C'mon, you say you're educated and informed. You should know by now that campaign promises are an empty bag, regardless who is making them. That's why you have to look at the individual and not what party they belong to or what they're promising to buy votes.

Plus, only a real idiot would have believed the DNC's promises to get out of Iraq. They played on anti-Bush sentiments (no doubt fueled by the media's contempt for the current administration), and people voted based on emotion rather than having the facts. Sounds a lot like union elections... the majority don't vote on the facts -- they vote based on fear-mongering, uncertainty, and doubt...

Nail on the Head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

allow me to buy you a beer sometime.