Phoenix

[1 VF-1 2NV]

Hi. Newbie here. Hear there will be a RIF among the FSC's. All because management wants to try a so called "checker board" system. Productivity, efficiency is what I call it. The FSC are going to jump from 1 plane to another, just like Southwest airlines. Anyone know how many PT/FT rampers will be affected considering it is a very senior station? And if this system is successful, what other stations might managemnt implent it?

 

[Hopeful]

Be prepared for many changes, thanks to the PLI, Performance Leadership Initiative. This is an AA/union effort to help AA compete with other carriers.
Even it means operating with less people.

But management ranks still are maintained...JFK is still replacing and hiring upervisors.

 

[TWU informer]

Be prepared for many changes, thanks to the PLI, Performance Leadership Initiative. This is an AA/union effort to help AA compete with other carriers.
Even it means operating with less people.

But management ranks still are maintained...JFK is still replacing and hiring upervisors.

WHAT? I was told and also read in the union newsletters that we gave up massive concessions to save 12,000 jobs. Now you mean the TWU is giving away the jobs also?

 

[eolesen]

Yes, there's going to be a RIF in PHX and a few other places where checkerboard goes into effect on 4/3. It maintains the same number of flights, but doesn't require as many gates.

It's not a matter of if it goes systemwide, but when. The test is already over -- it was done in November at STL, and the results show it improved their dependability, reduced the number of times aircraft sat out on the ramp waiting for a gate, and improved bag mishandling rates.

Don't know how many rif's take place, but they impact part time more than they do full time. Anecdotally, full time heads go up in the larger stations, and that's a good thing.

As an aside, I'm told it was already in process before PLI started, so it doesn't involve any contract changes or side letters. It was mostly the result of industrial engineers and schedulers looking at what-if's for trying to run a hub and spoke system with WN's efficiency. This one just happened to work.

 

[Kev3188]

The FSC are going to jump from 1 plane to another, just like Southwest airlines.

Sorry if this seems like a dense question, but how is the ramp currently set up at line stations? One unit/crew per gate?

 

[1 VF-1 2NV]

Yes, there's going to be a RIF in PHX and a few other places where checkerboard goes into effect on 4/3. It maintains the same number of flights, but doesn't require as many gates.

It's not a matter of if it goes systemwide, but when. The test is already over -- it was done in November at STL, and the results show it improved their dependability, reduced the number of times aircraft sat out on the ramp waiting for a gate, and improved bag mishandling rates.

Don't know how many rif's take place, but they impact part time more than they do full time. Anecdotally, full time heads go up in the larger stations, and that's a good thing.

As an aside, I'm told it was already in process before PLI started, so it doesn't involve any contract changes or side letters. It was mostly the result of industrial engineers and schedulers looking at what-if's for trying to run a hub and spoke system with WN's efficiency. This one just happened to work.

Thanks for the info. This is a very sensitive issue there in LAS. There are about a dozen former TWA FSC employess that are there. LAS is currently a 4/10/01 station for them and all of them are currently at the bottom of the FSC seniority list at that station. From what I was told when LAS recalls all AA FT, they will get their 25% seniority and be slotted accordingly. Many of them will jump up significantly like 20-30 slots. If a RIF happens at the same time, AA hired FSC will get laid off angering alot of them. The AA FSC's hope that the former TWA employees get laid off first before they get their 25%. What do you think?

I also forgot to mention that AA has approved a "2 person gate arrival". It basically says that if the gate conditions are OK, a 2 man crew (guideman and wing walker)can guide in a narrowbody plane (md80, 737, 757) into the gate instead of 3. Another cost cutting feature and reduction in manpower.

Sorry if this seems like a dense question, but how is the ramp currently set up at line stations? One unit/crew per gate?

I wish. There in LAS, there are not enough flights for gate manning. I understand the FSC work different gates for different flights. For example, plane A arrives at gate A. They work it in and out. Then 20 minutes later another plane B arrives at gate B. Is that what you are asking?

 

[Kev3188]

I wish. There in LAS, there are not enough flights for gate manning. I understand the FSC work different gates for different flights. For example, plane A arrives at gate A. They work it in and out. Then 20 minutes later another plane B arrives at gate B. Is that what you are asking?

Kind of.

I'm curious how the "checkerboard" plan differs from the current set up, and how the current set up drives headcount up compared to the new plan.

At the last station I worked at, WN agents were assigned in units to one specific gate. Anything that came or went from said gate was their responsibility.

Here at NW, at line stations when there's a plane on the ground, we all work it. When there's more than one, we split up. There's no segregation by gate

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I also forgot to mention that AA has approved a "2 person gate arrival". It basically says that if the gate conditions are OK, a 2 man crew (guideman and wing walker)can guide in a narrowbody plane (md80, 737, 757) into the gate instead of 3. Another cost cutting feature and reduction in manpower.

The numbers work out great until that one nose cowl gets wrecked. Then you are in the negatives again. But save a penny here spend a dollar there. Thats the AA way

 

[eolesen]

Only a few stations are gate manned, i.e. one crew works the same gate the entire day. Most other large stations have crews who stay together the entire day, and go from flight to flight or gate to gate.

The way I've seen the new model plotted out on paper, one crew (either six or seven including the crew chief) works a gate pair. Gate utilization is set so that there's only one flight on the gate pair at a time. When you plot gate numbers down a sheet of paper, and set up columns for one hour blocks across the piece of paper, the resulting gate schedule starts to resemble a checkerboard, hence the name.

If a flight arrives early, its gate is always open. Assuming the loading process is complete on the departing aircraft, the pushout crew stays behind while the rest marshall in and unload the arrival.

It sounds like a lot more work, but with an extra body or two added to the crew, it might make life a little easier. Upstairs, it might even work out to two agents working two gates, which is a lot better than one agent working a gate.

The other big driver here is that departures get spread out a litte more evenly so that activity is constant (which is WN's way of doing things).

If I remember, PHX has six overnighters -- the first three flights RON on the gate, and as soon as they push in the morning, the next three are towed onto the gate for their departures. Then, there's a couple hours without a whole lot going on until the next three arrivals, departures, and then another break in the action for a couple hours.

It's horribly inefficient in that you have to have a lot of bodies just to handle the simultaneous departures and related volume.

 

[AMFAMAN]

The way I've seen the new model plotted out on paper, one crew (either six or seven including the crew chief) works a gate pair. Gate utilization is set so that there's only one flight on the gate pair at a time. When you plot gate numbers down a sheet of paper, and set up columns for one hour blocks across the piece of paper, the resulting gate schedule starts to resemble a checkerboard, hence the name.

As with most employee reducing programs the company has tried, it looks great on paper but never works in the real world. When you add in maint. delays, weather, and the rest of the real world things that headquarters never see, you will find most of these plans never work.

 

[eolesen]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but STL has been running on this since November, so it does work. They haven't self destructed when weather has hit or under the Christmas and Thankgiving volume. Plus, their performance has seen a notable uptick in just about every area measured, so the sooner it can get to DFW and MIA the better.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but STL has been running on this since November, so it does work. They haven't self destructed when weather has hit or under the Christmas and Thankgiving volume. Plus, their performance has seen a notable uptick in just about every area measured, so the sooner it can get to DFW and MIA the better.

We shall see, DFW has been running much better since they re-opened the C gates they closed when D opened.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Just off the top of my head, I'd Imagine "THIS" new approach should be a SMASHING success in a "gate hold hel*" like LGA.

I worked in ORD a few years back, and when I was there, you worked 1 gate ONLY. Oh they would(from time to time), try to get a few guys to "break away" to go to the gate right "next door", to work.

Problem was (for them), once the whole crew got together and reminded one another, that we always had to work safely(like spacing the bags far enough apart on the conveyor) that "their" efforts usually "blew up in their faces"

Remember, there was ZERO room for outbound delays !!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[DFWCC]

[quote name=.

It's not a matter of if it goes systemwide, but when. The test is already over -- it was done in November at STL, and the results show it improved their dependability, reduced the number of times aircraft sat out on the ramp waiting for a gate, and improved bag mishandling rates.


Can't quite agree here, unless DFW VP Tim Ahern and the TWU are lying. TWU well maybe... About 10 days ago I attended a Crew Chief mtg where it was emphasized over and over it is a test here in DFW. STL how many gates? DFW 59 (I think) over 4 terminals, well I just don't know. DFW will test ckrbd gates on 2 gates

 

[1 VF-1 2NV]

So FT headcount will go up and PT headcount will go down? Is that correct?