PHX Crew News Session

[FlightChic]

Check out the Crew News session that was in PHX on 5/29. I guess we won't be growing, but rather cutting back. Also, they are pushing very aggressively for more a la cart pricing which is no surprise. Kirby made the analogy that if you see a gas station with gas for 3.50 and another one with gas for 4.00, which one are you going to go to for gas? The cheaper fuel station! Well, let me add my two cents. That isn't a good analogy. I could go to Wal-Mart and purchase a pair of shoes for $10 or I could go to Nordstrom's and purchase a pair for $100. Now, while the pair at Wal-Mart is definitely cheaper, they will not be comfortable and will not last very long and they will also look cheap and trashy, whereas the expensive pair will look good, be comfortable, and hold up for a very long time. So, most people won't compromise quantity for quality but our mgmt doesn't get that! It is also apparent there is no Plan A or Plan B. Also, people still think that America West bought us and Kirby had to explain that we saved each other and that it was a MERGER to save both of our arses. They will be offering voluntary furloughs later on and probably and we still haven't exhausted our current furlough list. We have 800 f/as still on voluntary furloughs and 800 limited recall f/as left. Mgmt thinks we are at the top of the industry whereas last year we were the worst. Our operation isn't perfect but it is great according to Kirby. They haven't noticed a slow down in demand. As for contract negotiations, every group is finished but f/as and pilots. Kirby said they want to finish as much as we do. It sounds like to me it's their way or the highway. We're asking for a fair contract so we can have a life and be able to pay our bills. They don't seem to want us to have that. They want pilots and f/as to work as separate crews like they do out West since it's more efficient. They don't think our customers care about bigger seat pitch, complimentary food and service, and better service. The only thing consumers are worried about is price of tickets and a better schedule and that's what they based their purchases on. IMHO, it is very misleading because I'm sure it's not advertised up front, I don't know, but you have to pay extra for checking that extra bag, food, etc. so that cheap $99 fare is now costing you $200. BTW, the pilot's crew session was very humorous. Sorry, but it was funny listening to their questions about the merger. If you're an employee check it out for entertainment. Why can't we all get along and be one big happy family? Sigh...

But then again, it makes US Aviation more fun to read.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Actually the gas station is a bit better a comparison then yours. A shopper makes a contentious decision to go to Nordstrom’s or Wal-Mart before getting into the car. You wouldn’t shop both. But if you’re driving down the street and realize you need gas and at the next corner are two stations you are going to the lowest.

The vast majority pax are buying (And in many, many cases only seeing) the lowest fare. The few who are less price centered, your elites or VFFs are already flying you for conienance. Back to the gas station analogy. I have one block from my house. I buy about 75% of my gas there because I pass it twice each day. It is usually 20-40 cent more than one about two miles away but out of my way. That is how the FF are. They are not shopping for amenities they are flying for convenience. Now you could drive these pax away by being rude to them and having bad performance but they are not leaving for snacks, or glass or any of those things despite what a vocal group here says.

 

[aredeeyou22]

...

 

[FlightChic]

And our airline isn't really cheaper like the 3.50 gas station because of all the nickel and diming and yes there are some pax who do prefer to ride on a clean airplane with decent service and will pay a bit more for it. Sometimes I'll forego a "cheaper" gas station when I know I will have to wait 10 minutes for my turn to get cheap gas or if their pumps are old and slow and I have to go in and pay as opposed to using the credit card pay at the pump which is easier and more convenient. Our mgmt is targeting the Wal-Mart crowd but contrary to their belief, there are people who still like friendly service, clean airplanes, bigger seat pitch, food in first class, etc. I hear it from pax all the time on the airplane - sometimes they are telling me how bad US sucks, others tell me how they won't fly on such and such carrier because of one of the reasons above. If we truly were cheaper I would understand, but sometimes we're not yet we offer a substandard product. We need to market our airline as a no frills airline with less convenience because of the a la carte tactics so that customers understand this.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Notice you say you hear it from the PAX all the time. They may complain but they still fly. Corp. has tracked FFs who sy they will never fly again after a policy or benefit change and it is like 99% still fly and the few who don't it is becuased they moved or changed jobs. I worked gates and CS for many years and heard those same stories. I actually think some of the "Nice" to have items are maybe more valuable from an employee moral standpoint than a customer marketing one.

I do agree about customer expectations though. One reason SW is always number one in CS is not only their friendly people but they delivery what the customer expects. Or to state it another way the manage expectations.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Big flaw in your logic.

A flight is an event, when its over, you have nothing but your ticket stub.

Buying shoes is something you own and keep.

People will whine and moan endlessly about service, but, when they have to chose between $400 and $350, the large majority will take the $350.

After the flight, it really doesn't matter.

I've had horrendous flights to exotic places in my life. I remember the vacation for life, not the uncomfortable seat.

 

[phlus2]

The vast majority pax are buying (And in many, many cases only seeing) the lowest fare. The few who are less price centered, your elites or VFFs are already flying you for conienance.

Not in all cases - I no longer fly US - even though I live in Philly. So flying UA from Philly is certainly less convenient than US - but well worth the inconvenience because of the better service, cleaner planes, nicer employees, and the list goes on.

That is how the FF are. They are not shopping for amenities they are flying for convenience.

Again - I disagree - I did leave US for UA in part because of the amenities - a first class that still means something is but one example.

 

[cltrat]

best move Parker could do is get rid of Kirby he is comatose

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> Big flaw in your logic.

A flight is an event, when its over, you have nothing but your ticket stub.

Buying shoes is something you own and keep.

Oh, they’ll be plenty of souvenirs from the sales cart to take home from a US flight in the not-too-distant future.

Pillows, blankets, diapers, beef jerky...

 

[Redbird]

They want pilots and f/as to work as separate crews like they do out West since it's more efficient.

It may be more efficient but one has to define the term 'efficient'. For whom and at what cost?

Numerous studies show a number of facts that negatives with swapping crews. First is that many accidents occur on the first leg of a trip. Also studies show that even the most professional of crews have not completely formed the 'team' until a few legs and by then the crew culture has been established. By that I mean by the 3rd of 4th leg, everyone knows who will be doing what, who can be counted on and who will have to be compensated for. This is not to safe it is unsafe to swap crews but it also can NOT be said that the lack of incident/accident refutes the assertion that one method is better.

I worked for a carrier that swapped crews. First, it caused frequent problems when the cabin crew or cockpit crew was delayed for any number of reasons. (it may work well in the west where there are fewer wx delays but in the NE corridor, it will be a mess) Second, it meant that every swap required a complete crew briefing as again studies show that even adding or subtracting one crewmember changes the dynamics. When we went to integral crews that stayed together, I noticed a significantly higher level of cooperation and crew interaction. Previously one seldom even knew all the F/As names, much less anything about them and their experience.

 

[Redbird]

They want pilots and f/as to work as separate crews like they do out West since it's more efficient.

It may be more efficient but one has to define the term 'efficient'. For whom and at what cost?

Numerous studies show a number of facts that negatives with swapping crews. First is that many accidents occur on the first leg of a trip. Also studies show that even the most professional of crews have not completely formed the 'team' until a few legs and by then the crew culture has been established. By that I mean by the 3rd of 4th leg, everyone knows who will be doing what, who can be counted on and who will have to be compensated for. This is not to safe it is unsafe to swap crews but it also can NOT be said that the lack of incident/accident refutes the assertion that one method is better.

I worked for a carrier that swapped crews. First, it caused frequent problems when the cabin crew or cockpit crew was delayed for any number of reasons. (it may work well in the west where there are fewer wx delays but in the NE corridor, it will be a mess) Second, it meant that every swap required a complete crew briefing as again studies show that even adding or subtracting one crewmember changes the dynamics. When we went to integral crews that stayed together, I noticed a significantly higher level of cooperation and crew interaction. Previously one seldom even knew all the F/As names, much less anything about them and their experience.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I worked for a carrier that swapped crews. First, it caused frequent problems when the cabin crew or cockpit crew was delayed for any number of reasons.

As a former USAir "Southern Division" pilot, I had similar experiences when the cabin and cockpit crews were not paired. As much as I thought the the PI/US merger really screwed up a good airline, I was grateful that we got rid of the constantly swapping of cabin crews. On my last "southern" pairing, I flew a 4-day trip with 14 legs. During that trip, I flew with 12 completely different cabin crews.

The biggest reason that airlines don't pair the cockpit and cabin crews through an entire trip is that the flight attendants usually have looser duty rigs, so the computer plans their pairings differently. Since USAir(ways) flight attendants have always maintained the same duty rigs as the pilots, their pairings come out indentical with those of the pilots.

I really hope we never go to non-paired crews. It can be a total nightmare because three factors have to meet at every station like clockwork every time to keep schedule integrity: the airplane, the pilots, and the flight attendants. The chances of that happening consistently for the duration of a 3 or 4 day trip are minimal. One of the reasons SWA can consistently fly such a "tight" schedule is because all three of those factors almost always stay together for the entire trip. They never have an empty airplane and pilots waiting to see if any flight attendants show up. Nor do their flight attendants sit at the gate with passengers boarded wondering if there will be pilots to fly. Nor do they have flight attendants and pilots sitting at the gate waiting for airplanes. What a concept!!!

 

[EastUS]

I really hope we never go to non-paired crews.

Amen to all sir!!! There's MUCH to be said for doing ONE crew briefing, having a mutual understanding of what collective "page" all are on, and having a better "we're in this together" rapport..especially for those rare times whenever things "don't go well" at any significant level. "CRM!?..Whatta' Concept!"/etc. Less head scratching and better communications, imho.

 

[Travelpro72]

Keep us together as crew! ! ! Now some are not a fan of Kirby but I do LOVE when he spells it out crystal clear of the reason for the HP/US merger and just where each would be today. Ahead of Frontier. Mmmmkaaaaay. Speaking as a flight attendant we are on separate contracts YES but we MUST, MUST, MUST press on together to get this done. We MUST be unified and stop being divisive. WHAT may I ask does it solve? Give me a contract that I can live with and give us ALL equal pay! ! ! !

 

[hp_fa]

I know that I would prefer that the crew be kept together. However I also know that AWA management wanted to keep pilots and FA's separate so that they could be able to get the maximum allowed out of a FA crew, which was in excess of what they could get out of a combined crew as far as duty day and hours. I guess the big question is whether the benefit of keeping crews together to keep flights moving in irregular ops situations (where the pilots or the FA's may be stuck in a holding pattern somewhere) outweighs the perceived benefit of being able to schedule more hours onto FA's.