Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[oldiebutgoody]

wow, so its "do it our way or we'll do it our way for you?" again, typical east mentality how is that different than roll calling?

USAPA is your union now. If you choose not to participate, you get what you get. I don't see at all what your point about roll call voting is at all. It's just the way democracy works. You can throw tantrums like some have done on this board since the election, but it isn't gonna bring ALPA back. Now, do we get on with business with you or without you? That's what he meant.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I personally think USAPA will work for the good of ALL pilots.

I'd like to imagine what the AWA pilots would have been like if they had merged with an airline that had a junior work force? Would they not have proclaimed a DOH solution? You can tell me as much as you want that you wouldn't promote it, however you're just being selfish. When Piedmont bought Henson, a junior airline, they went DOH...exactly what the Piedmont pilots wanted. When US bought Piedmont, Piedmont wanted the pilot groups slotted because US had a senior work force. My point being AWA pilots are trying to tell themselves that the Nic award was just. However if AWA had bought Vanguard or someone else, the AWA pilots definitely would have gone DOH. I will dismiss any reply from AWA pilots that argue against this because you CANNOT say you would not promote DOH if you were the senior pilot group. Case and Point!

Piedmont Airlines (original, Winston-Salem based) purchased Henson Airlines and it remained a wholly owned subsidiary. The pilot groups were never merged, there was never any intent on the company's part to merge the carriers, nor did any party make any attempt to merge the pilot groups.

Years later, USAir changed the name of Henson Airlines to Piedmont Airlines to the everlasting confusion of many people. USAir wanted to preclude any other corporation from using the name Piedmont Airlines, so they used that to rename the subsidiary feeder carrier. At the same time they renamed their other two subsidiary feeder airlines PSA and Allegheny, just to keep those names in house.

 

[nycbusdriver]

There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. You may not wake up in the morning either. However calling someone names serves no purpose except to label yourself. But if our "Morons" can pull off this election victory in such a short amount of time, unite a fractured pilot group, then I will take them anytime.

You need to find the antonym for "unite", then your last sentence would make much better sense.

I wouldn't expect you to understand. It makes perfect sense to me.

It makes perfect sense to me, too, because I know AAA73pilot speaks of uniting the fractured EAST pilot group.

The east pilot group has been very divided amongst themselves for over 20 years now. We were dysfunctional, ALPA was dysfunctional AND obsolete, and management exploited those critical weaknesses in spades. We went from the highest compensated pilot group in the industry to the dregs during those two decaeds mainly as a result of this disunity. USAPA changed all that. We all woke up from the nightmare and said enough. Nothing unites a divided group better than a common enemy. Thank you, ALPA, for playing that role all too well!

 

[av8or]

USAPA is your union now. If you choose not to participate, you get what you get. I don't see at all what your point about roll call voting is at all. It's just the way democracy works. You can throw tantrums like some have done on this board since the election, but it isn't gonna bring ALPA back. Now, do we get on with business with you or without you? That's what he meant.

usapa is not my union, not by any stretch of the imagination. if i was at mainline i would have certainly voted no to usapa, hey, might still get to vote no if theres a single carrier suit

 

[nycbusdriver]

Oh yeah,
I forgot about those "dog clickers." It just goes to show how low a few can go. No big whoop, ALPA's dead -- viva USAPA.

Later,
Eye

The westies got the dog clickers either from their mommies or from their therapists. It is used to distract them and help them from crying in public, which would be undignified and oh so embarrassing.

I suggest that the east pilots bring along spare handkerchiefs and Kleenex to offer their west brothers when they hear the clickers. Be generous and compassionate, easties. Make a real show of it. Hand them a Kleenex and tell them it's okay to cry.

 

[prechilill]

wow, so its "do it our way or we'll do it our way for you?" again, typical east mentality how is that different than roll calling?

You have pretty much figured out how things work with the east. We on the west are up to speed now on their antics. Give it a little time and enjoy their show- it is bound to be a comic crowd pleaser.

 

[cynic]

USAPA is your union now. If you choose not to participate, you get what you get.

Actually, if they choose not to participate, they'll get what the East guys want. If they do choose to participate, they'll get what they East guys want. Either way, they're totally screwed.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

not remotely surprising either, try re-reading my post, i'm referring to flow from the wholly owned's, but of course, as is the case with most easties, you don't even realize or care that we exist even though we're all part of the same company, hence 'flowthru'
no secret meetings, all done in the open


precisely, usapa is only interested in themselves, so nothings really changed from aaa alpa 'give us ours and screw everyone else', so i guess trade unionism is still dead and buried

so much rhetoric from usapa, should have hired bagdad bob as your pr guy


makes you wonder what color the sky is in his world if he thinks this 'organized tantrum' did anything remotely similar to unification, guess that depends on "how you define unite" 🙄

I took your advice and reread the post. Sorry for my confusion, I assumed you were a west pilot. Not a WO.

However, I do not agree with the same classification of pilots. By design our corporate structure was meant to keep us separate. Dating back before even I was hired. Flowthru was a topic being discussed by ALPA. Since last Thursday you can address your concerns to the USAPA leadership. I know to you it is a high priority, but in reality it is just one of many that USAPA will have to tackle. Where Flowthru is on the list of things to do would only be speculation on my part.

So your misguided conclusion in our interest in representing ourselves is just sour grapes. Sorry, but that is my opinion.

It's not rhetoric anymore. USAPA is starting to get up and running. Our priorities differ. BTW. I am not a spokesman for USAPA. Just a volunteer and supporter.

The sky is just fine from my perspective. We just have different priorities.

 

[cynic]

not remotely surprising either, try re-reading my post, i'm referring to flow from the wholly owned's, but of course, as is the case with most easties, you don't even realize or care that we exist even though we're all part of the same company, hence 'flowthru'
no secret meetings, all done in the open

Also funny how any pilots doing the "preferential hire" routine that interview out west get hired. All of the ones who do the interviews in the East get rejected. It's going to get awful for some guys to get a jumpseat on PSA or Piedmont if the East guys keep screwing those guys.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

wow, so its "do it our way or we'll do it our way for you?" again, typical east mentality how is that different than roll calling?

It's not our mentality. I would welcome and even want west participation. The reality is they are not going to in the short term anyway. Without dissenting opinions to temper future voting on issues, then you get what you get. Wish it wasn't going to be that way, but that is how I see it. Maybe things will change, but learning about dissent from this web board will serve no purpose and be a little late. Oh well.

 

[av8or]

Also funny how any pilots doing the "preferential hire" routine that interview out west get hired. All of the ones who do the interviews in the East get rejected. It's going to get awful for some guys to get a jumpseat on PSA or Piedmont if the East guys keep screwing those guys.

with a few possible rogue exceptions in the past, the jumpseat was not, will not, and should not, be used as a weapon by WO's
the idea was bandied around occasionally by a few of the rank and file on the many occasions that aaa screwed us, or subverted our career expectations (sound familiar?), but was always roundly advised against by the WO mecs
the jumpseat is a much better pulpit than cudgel

i don't know if people are getting hired more often from east or west so i can't speak to that

also its 'preferential interviews' not 'hiring' they seem to have been very clear on that as of late
also hearing rumors that discipline info has been getting questioned in some of the interviews, indicating that someone somewhere is violating pria and other employment disclosure laws

 

[767jetz]

prechilill,
What's done is done.

That is correct. I see you're finally coming around to reality. The arbitration award is done and can't be undone since it is legally binding and USAPA inherited it. What's done is done.

 

[EastUS]

It's not our mentality. I would welcome and even want west participation.

I'm fully in agreement with that. This is an emotionally trying time for a great many I'm sure, and it will take some time for that to become possible to any degree I'd guess. In the meanwhile, imho; we should all ensure that there'll be no more unprofessional, BS behavior from either of our previously seperate groups. That kind of crap serves no one/no purpose, and can only result in ill will and even sanctions towards otherwise good people, who find their anger/exuberance/etc getting the best of them. We should all be "better than that".

Regardless of nearly a year's worth of hostility/mutual contempt/etc...we're in this together...like it or not. I'm sure the AWAPPA folks will sue/rant/etc, and that many out east are now exuberant via the recent election results....Bottom line = There's NO excuse to treat each other with any childish, and absurd displays of public contempt on the line....PERIOD!

 

[av8or]

It's not our mentality. I would welcome and even want west participation. The reality is they are not going to in the short term anyway. Without dissenting opinions to temper future voting on issues, then you get what you get. Wish it wasn't going to be that way, but that is how I see it. Maybe things will change, but learning about dissent from this web board will serve no purpose and be a little late. Oh well.

again, for all intents and purposes its forced yet futile participation, what part of 'unite' does that fall under?

by you're apparent definition everyone was 'united' under alpa as well, but i'm sure you would argue that not to be the case, same dance, different song with a more defined 500 some-odd person gap....

i don't see unity, i see possible anarchy

curious to see the slew of lawsuits sure to commence from all this

 

[73320]

It makes perfect sense to me, too, because I know AAA73pilot speaks of uniting the fractured EAST pilot group.

The east pilot group has been very divided amongst themselves for over 20 years now. We were dysfunctional, ALPA was dysfunctional AND obsolete, and management exploited those critical weaknesses in spades. We went from the highest compensated pilot group in the industry to the dregs during those two decaeds mainly as a result of this disunity. USAPA changed all that. We all woke up from the nightmare and said enough. Nothing unites a divided group better than a common enemy. Thank you, ALPA, for playing that role all too well!

It is stunning to outsiders how you can equate going from industry leading compensation to the dregs as a direct consequence of ALPA. The reality is that it is a direct consequence of your companies profitability and its ability to pay you those rates. Southwest now is getting paid rather well, not because of its in house unions ability to pay them but rather because of the companies ability to pay them. This is high comedy from the USAPIANS.....tell us more!