Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[Flyz4food]

As has been stated by many others; dumping Alpa wasn't, by ANY means, a decision based entirely upon the Nic fiasco. As for "we have to reneg on what we agreed"? It's been fully covered by many others that "we" didn't "agree to" the vast bulk of what was going on within Alpa, via the closed-door "negotiations"..secret dealings,etc, nor were the line pilots part and parcel of these often bizarre "processes". Whenever this, very obvious notion to the longer-lived under Alpa east pilots is said, it's generally responded to with some west denial of the truth contained, and yet another "You guys won't ever take responsibility for anything" shot. Spare yourself the trouble, if you feel the need to shoot that BS again, and just try to understand things from our viewpoint....if only for a moment.

By your same logic = "because we didn't get what we want and that we have to reneg on what we agreed to"..I'll ask that you consider the following:

1) We have a new Union, elected by a majority of the combined pilots, which covers all pilots here, including yourself. Hence "we agreed to".
2) Silence is generally registered as consent in the eyes of the law.
3) You aren't participating in your/our/all's Union, nor making your voice heard therein.

So what exactly were the pilots doing on all the occasions that your ALPA reps were screwing you? Not a damn thing!!
We only have a new "union" because you imposed it on us. Truthfully, do you honestly believe it to be a "win" when you split the group. You should have have a blowout for us to believe that we needed the change for the WHOLE group, not just yours.

I need you to consider this: What do you consider "final and binding", and how do you expect us to believe anything that follows. Answer that.

 

[EastUS]

So what exactly were the pilots doing on all the occasions that your ALPA reps were screwing you? Not a damn thing!!
We only have a new "union" because you imposed it on us. Truthfully, do you honestly believe it to be a "win" when you split the group. You should have have a blowout for us to believe that we needed the change for the WHOLE group, not just yours.

I need you to consider this: What do you consider "final and binding", and how do you expect us to believe anything that follows. Answer that.

"So what exactly were the pilots doing on all the occasions that your ALPA reps were screwing you? Not a damn thing!!" No argument. Many, myself included, have noted that we certainly should have dumped Alpo LONG ago. It took several serious and consecutive lightning strikes to radically unify the east group enough to finally do it.

"I need you to consider this: What do you consider "final and binding" = Death and taxes, otherwise I've always preferred just to try and do the right thing, as best that I'm able to see it. It's no surprise that opinions as to what's the right thing vary among people.

, and how do you expect us to believe anything that follows. Answer that." Suit yourself then. I've certainly not given and then broken my word to you, nor have you to me. The issues with our group needn't be initially based on trust, but rather reasoned, and shared interests. What you do individually, or as a section of our group's fully up to you and yours.

 

[Piedmont1984]

So what exactly were the pilots doing on all the occasions that your ALPA reps were screwing you? Not a damn thing!!
We only have a new "union" because you imposed it on us. Truthfully, do you honestly believe it to be a "win" when you split the group. You should have have a blowout for us to believe that we needed the change for the WHOLE group, not just yours.

I need you to consider this: What do you consider "final and binding", and how do you expect us to believe anything that follows. Answer that.

Death and taxes.

 

[ClueByFour]

I will note that, while the west perception's apparently that USAPA was voted in purely to disadvantage your group, the establishment of your AWAPPA, and any/all efforts at subverting USAPA..well..courts may well view those through other than the AWA-colored glasses many of your folks are wearing. "But, but..Your Honor!...we understand that the Union was elected by a mojority of our pilots..but..well..umm..some of us just didn't like it!".."naturally Your Honor..we then chose to do everything in our power to help usapa fail.". There's a real slam-dunk victory for your side in any court all right...yup...no doubt at all.

Please. As if that same court will buy the "oh please, your honor, we went to binding arbitration and lost but want a mulligan" line.

4) "Your chances of accomplishing anything are slim to none." After nearly a year's worth of similar propoganda...no one out here's much impressed by such statements. The east has the votes to "go it alone", but, to my mind; that's NOT in our collective group's best interests.

Because the strategists who thought DOH/LOS was either a good place to make their stand in mediation and/or arbitration met with such stellar success. In that regard, the West guys are way ahead (and, despite the tyranny of the majority approach) and will remain so.

 

[EastUS]

Please. As if that same court will buy the "oh please, your honor, we went to binding arbitration and lost but want a mulligan" line.
Because the strategists who thought DOH/LOS was either a good place to make their stand in mediation and/or arbitration met with such stellar success. In that regard, the West guys are way ahead (and, despite the tyranny of the majority approach) and will remain so.

Different strategists are in place now. I'm well content to see how things play out. I've always been somewhat curious though = If you don't mind; What's your personal interest in ANY of this? Given that you're not actually a pilot, and you don't work here?...just wondering. No matter really, as it's a public board.

 

[767jetz]

Shouldn't you be on the UAL boards telling your brothers why CAL 05' 73 Captains and 00' 75 Captains should have a leg up, and the fact that CAL is in awesome shape comparatively be to their advantage. Of course their fleet plan orders..........

777 deliveries: 2 in 2009; 4 in 2011; 2 in 2012
111 Boeing aircraft deliveries between 2008-2012
Six 737NG aircraft deliveries in 2009 have been deferred to 2010, but an additional 4 737NGs have been ordered for 2010
33 737NG deliveries in 2008
24 737NGs and 2-3 787s for 2009, and 10 737 NGs, 6 787s for 2009-2012
787 fleet total upon delivery completion: 65

......to your old fleet with weak underpowered 777's and no money for replacements means you should end up nicely at that bottom. Good luck with the merger, because I can tell you what the bottom third of the CAL pilots think they deserve. They have a group called the B3(bottom 3rd) that just shoe horned an 06 hire on their merger committee to make sure their "expectations" which are superior to the UAL pilots are met. They will be saving you after all. Your UAL brothers will love your support of the CAL pilots and their superior expectations.

Surprise surprise! But FYI, I happen to think a 757 CO captain should be ahead of me, even though he was hired at CO after I was hired at UA. He brings it to the table, he has every right to keep his expectations. God bless him for making a better choice or being at a better place at a better time than I was. No hard feelings. How about that! Consistency. You should try it some time.

But don't you fret... CO and UA pilots have already worked out most of the details. That I know for fact, from the horses mouth. they bring a lot to the table as do we. It will be a very equitable integration. Jealous?

 

[luvthe9]

It will be a very equitable integration. Jealous?

Dream on, CO wants nothing to do with UA according to all my friends there.

 

[tazz]

I've been here 24 years and I have never seen such unity in the east. There have been plenty of predictions from the west concerning our chances of accomplishing anything. Does getting enough cards or winning the election ring a bell?

If your side will not engage, the process moves forward without you. There is no option C.

USAPA was created to replace ALPA - for many sound reasons. As of yet, USAPA has not performed one official act which could be construed as detrimental to the interests of the west.

Being born doesn't count.

As of yet usapa hasn't performed at all! You won the election and that is as far as you will go.

 

[LSS]

As of yet usapa hasn't performed at all! You won the election and that is as far as you will go.

And how would you know that, considering you have chosen not to participate? If you were participating, you would have seen what they have accomplished in a very short period of time. You can stand on the sidelines, refusing to participate, scream, shout, throw your little tantrums and cast aspersions until you are blue in the face and it won't alter the progress and work USAPA is doing and will continue to do... with or without you!

 

[Flyz4food]

And how would you know that, considering you have chosen not to participate? If you were participating, you would have seen what they have accomplished in a very short period of time. You can stand on the sidelines, refusing to participate, scream, shout, throw your little tantrums and cast aspersions until you are blue in the face and it won't alter the progress and work USAPA is doing and will continue to do... with or without you!

Name them!!

 

[Leonidas]

Word is the east has lost yet another arbitration, this time they refused to wear the new uniform, so they went to arbitration and lost. I wonder if they will activate the cirp or erp programs to help them cope. Clowns

 

[LSS]

Name them!!

Just to name a few... their incident hotline was established immediately; an ASAP MOU has been signed, and USAPA has proposed improvements to this program to the FAA and the company (even though your beloved ALPA stated that the ASAP program would go away if they were voted off the rock); the same or better insurance products are available with information on their website to effect the change; their office is staffed and functional in CLT; their numerous committees are staffed to a large degree; and a multitude of other matters have been dealt with. Not too shabby for only 8 days in...

 

[LSS]

Word is the east has lost yet another arbitration, this time they refused to wear the new uniform, so they went to arbitration and lost. I wonder if they will activate the cirp or erp programs to help them cope. Clowns

Really, since you're so in the know, what was the grievance and when was it filed, leading to this arbitration?... "They refused to wear the new uniform?" Who is "they"?

And since you seem to be keeping count... "Word is the east has lost yet another arbitration" ...
Name the other arbitrations USAPA have lost since they were elected (8 days ago)...

 

[Flyz4food]

Just to name a few... their incident hotline was established immediately; an ASAP MOU has been signed, and USAPA has proposed improvements to this program to the FAA and the company (even though your beloved ALPA stated that the ASAP program would go away if they were voted off the rock); the same or better insurance products are available with information on their website to effect the change; their office is staffed and functional in CLT; their numerous committees are staffed to a large degree; and a multitude of other matters have been dealt with. Not too shabby for only 8 days in...
[/quote

Perhaps. Easy to cut and paste policies and procedures already in the works.

 

[KTM300]

Word is the east has lost yet another arbitration, this time they refused to wear the new uniform, so they went to arbitration and lost. I wonder if they will activate the cirp or erp programs to help them cope. Clowns

Why do you like to make this BS up ! Does it make you feel better?

Just for your information, it was ALPA that told us to not wear the new uniforms not USAPA. Now that ALPA is gone, many pilots are wearing their new uniforms, including myself.

DOH 10/84