Pilot seniority arbitration award is out

[flynomore]

TWO WORDS: BINDING ARBITRATION
"An informal hearing regarding a dispute. The dispute is judged by a group of people (generally three) who have been selected by an impartial panel. Once a decision has been reached, there is no further appeal process."

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That is true. But consider what could be inserted into our contract in Section 24-Filing of Vacancies, (old section) c. Awarding of Positions and Displacement procedures.

This unraveling of the seniority system is a gift to management and you are too wrapped up with taking away something to see it.

Lots of ways to be screwed boys for us all....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Leaving? Where are the pilots going to go? Decertify? Yeah...right. Good luck. Perhaps you should re-read the Heritage article because that was the purpose of posting it.

Old, no outside skills, need a job....ALPA, the company, everyone knows this. You're stuck.

aquagreen,

Do not underestimate your eastern-based colleagues. These very experienced, better trained aviators will do whatever it takes to get back what they've rightfully earned. These guys and gals are so pissed off anything and I do mean ANYTHING is possible.

The media will be all over this and the flying public will get the real story. The last thing they want is upset pilots in the cockpit. There IS NO WAY TO JUSTIFY SOMEONE WITH 16 YEARS OF FLYING EXPERIENCE BEING PUT JUNIOR TO SOMEONE WITH JUST 2 YEARS. It is FUNDAMENTALLY and MORALLY W-R-O-N-G. Joe Public gets this and this my friend is the person who ultimately pays every pilot's salary.

Later,
Eye

 

[700UW]

They are wasting their time, they made the decision to go to binding arbtitration, the race is over and east lost big time.

Maybe if they ever had a backbone things would be differant, they got outclassed and outdone by the West MEC.

Game, set and match, West won, east lost.

 

[Phoenix]

The game is set up to make the common American resemble a rat on a treadmill. Run on the wheel to pay taxes, pay dues, pay a lot of cut rate health care, then die.

That is quite a gospel you have there.

 

[aquagreen73s]

aquagreen,

Do not underestimate your eastern-based collegues. These very experienced, better trained aviatiors will do whatever it takes to get back what they've rightfully earned. These guys and gals are so pissed off anything and I do mean ANYTHING is possible.

The media will be all over this and the flying public will get the real story. The last thing they want is upset pilots in the cockpit. There IS NO WAY TO JUSTIFY SOMEONE WITH 16 YEARS OF FLYING EXPERIENCE BEING PUT JUNIOR TO SOMEONE WITH JUST 2 YEARS. It is FUNDAMENTALLY and MORALLY W-R-O-N-G. Joe Public gets this and this my friend is the person who ultimately pays every pilot's salary.

Later,
Eye

They're rats on the treadmill, just like the rest of us. Try stepping off, and you're up against the whole system. ALPA is a part of the system, as is the company. Work, pay taxes, pay dues, and then die. That's the system.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The media will be all over this and the flying public will get the real story. The last thing they want is upset pilots in the cockpit. There IS NO WAY TO JUSTIFY SOMEONE WITH 16 YEARS OF FLYING EXPERIENCE BEING PUT JUNIOR TO SOMEONE WITH JUST 2 YEARS. It is FUNDAMENTALLY and MORALLY W-R-O-N-G. Joe Public gets this and this my friend is the person who ultimately pays every pilot's salary.

Later,
Eye

In an ideal world, you would be right.

The "award" has been out for a while now, and the media is NOT all over this. It's a non-event for them so far, because there have been no very public ramifications, i.e. excessive flight delays or cancellations. Even the self-proclaimed "Best Source of USAirways News Online," justplanenews.com, does not have a mention of the "award" or the consternation it is causing among east pilots.

If it does get some public attention, Joe Public will be outraged in front of the TV cameras, simply because the disgraceful conduct of the arbitrator is egregious. Joe Public will, in fact, get it that having such an upsidedown seniority is absurd and wrong.

And then they will proceed to board their USAirways flight to their vacation and never give it another thought.

 

[Phoenix]

Game, set and match, West won, east lost.

Your very explanation is by definition an assessment that ALPA merger policy was violated. But USAir pilots are not stupid enough to waste their time going to quart.

ALPA and Dougie will pay what it costs to calm the natives, or not. :huh:

 

[CV580ETOPS]

The list will not exist as it stands today.

If ALPA does not change it ALPA will cease to exist. This isn't a USAirways issue, this is a national ALPA issue. Each and every ALPA carrier has been let down by a poorly thought out merger policy.

This list proves it.

This is Praters wake up call and the wake up call for all of ALPA. At the very least the LCC pilots will decertify ALPA on their property if the list remains intact.

You can take that to the bank.

pilot

Not all of them. Your new found west coast buddies may not be interested in going down that road with you.You guys are all one airline now arent you?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

They're rats on the treadmill, just like the rest of us. Try stepping off, and you're up against the whole system. ALPA is a part of the system, as is the company. Work, pay taxes, pay dues, and then die. That's the system.

aquagreen,
If this list is allowed to go through, ALPA will cease to exist. Every pilot at every airline is cringing big time over this ruling. Everyone with half a brain gets this. It IS ultimately ALPA's fault that this happened. Like someone said earlier, you put your fate in the hand of non-aviatiors and you can (and in this case are) dealt a $hitty deal.

I urge US pilots to take this to the mattresses. Get the media in your homes. Its the ultimate American tragedy to have older, skilled workers thrown under the bus. The baby boom generation hates this. You have a guy that has put 16-plus years into a company, he has 15,000 flight hours -- yet he is put under someone with two years and less than 10,000 flight hours? Give me a break! Better trained people that put their time in!!! Why would they want to spend their hard-earned vacation dollars on an airline that treats its workers so unfairly?

Aqua, you get where I am going with this, don't you? With this ruling the whole company's survival is at stake. American, United, and Delta are salavating at the opportunity to pick up what's left of US Airways' customers. Why would they want to fly on an airline where so many are so unhappy? Particularly the guys and gals who hold their live's in their hands? You want career expectations? Well, don't expect this list to stay valid. If it does US Airways will cease to exist.

Later,
Eye

 

[700UW]

Quart? of milk or oil?

The GAG and 57% of your pilots never met a concession they did not like, they never stood up to the company and never will.

The company has nothing to do with the arbitration, East got their shorts handed to them and you will now have to live with it.

 

[ab320driver]

They are wasting their time, they made the decision to go to binding arbtitration, the race is over and east lost big time.

Maybe if they ever had a backbone things would be differant, they got outclassed and outdone by the West MEC.

Game, set and match, West won, east lost.

Good luck running this place. This is not grumbling or sour grapes of a few. This is rapidly turning into a REVOLT of the MAJORITY of the pilot group. This last kick to the EAST group(of which there have too many to count), was by far the hardest. The MAJORITY of the pilots here at US(WEST) Air don't care about this place anymore. It's not ours, it's yours. It's now just a paycheck, no more. Indifference is far more destructive than anger. You may have won the battle, but we'll guarantee we ALL LOSE THE WAR...

 

[Phoenix]

Not all of them. Your new found west coast buddies may not be interested in going down that road with you.You guys are all one airline now arent you?

Not yet.

"...Please remember that this merged list cannot be utilized by management until a joint contract is in place...."

Fraternally,
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA Master Executive Council

..Why would they want to spend their hard-earned vacation dollars on an airline that treats its workers so unfairly?

Because the ticket is cheaper? :unsure:

 

[Harry Callahan]

aquagreen,
If this list is allowed to go through, ALPA will cease to exist. Every pilot at every airline is cringing big time over this ruling. Everyone with half a brain gets this. It IS ultimately ALPA's fault that this happened. Like someone said earlier, you put your fate in the hand of non-aviatiors and you can (and in this case are) dealt a $hitty deal.

I urge US pilots to take this to the mattresses. Get the media in your homes. Its the ultimate American tragedy to have older, skilled workers thrown under the bus. The baby boom generation hates this. You have a guy that has put 16-plus years into a company, he has 15,000 flight hours -- yet he is put under someone with two years and less than 10,000 flight hours? Give me a break! Better trained people that put their time in!!! Why would they want to spend their hard-earned vacation dollars on an airline that treats its workers so unfairly?

Aqua, you get where I am going with this, don't you? With this ruling the whole company's survival is at stake. American, United, and Delta are salavating at the opportunity to pick up what's left of US Airways' customers. Why would they want to fly on an airline where so many are so unhappy? Particularly the guys and gals who hold their live's in their hands? You want career expectations? Well, don't expect this list to stay valid. If it does US Airways will cease to exist.

Later,
Eye

Eye:
As much as I would love to agree with you, I think most of the Ma & Pa Kettles could care less about you or me. It's all about the fare or deal they can get.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

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Duuuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeee

American Western has NEVER owned anything to sell. This is very, very bad people.

Stay focused.

I think you guys were hocked to the gills too, before, ...oh,what do you call it; oh yeah, "The SandCastle" took over.Stay focused...kinda hard to do when you can't see past the rage. <_< Gotta feel sorry for those AWA types.Looks like they won't have a moments peace
for the rest of their careers if you folks have anything to say about it.

 

[flynomore]

I think you guys were hocked to the gills too, before, ...oh,what do you call it; oh yeah, "The SandCastle" took over.Stay focused...kinda hard to do when you can't see past the rage. <_< Gotta feel sorry for those AWA types.Looks like they won't have a moments peace
for the rest of their careers if you folks have anything to say about it.

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That was all Mr. Wolf's plan to enhance shareholder value and his value as well.

I think everyone is focused, but it ain't on what you think.

FOR THE RECORD NO ONE HERE IS ADVOCATING ANY TYPE OF ILLEGAL JOB ACTION.