Pilot seniority arbitration award is out

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I think you need to explain how the AAA merger committee over reached in their proposal. If anything, I think the AWA proposal was way out there.

Maybe a comparison would help.

Mtnman928

It is explained in the opinion portion of the award.

 

[oldcrow]

From what I just heard , ALPA National is going to take a hard look at this list, and they have the power to reject it. It seems that east f/o's are calling en masse to National saying they are going to quit ALPA.

[deleted by mod]

 

[flyguy121]

I just want to voice my support for whatever action is taken by the East pilots on this issue. This is just so fundamentally wrong on so many levels.

I would hope that at this difficult time that maybe...just maybe...the other labor groups would come out in show of support and solidarity for the pilot group.

It's a defining moment and time for labor to come together and show the powers that be that this is unacceptable for the industry as a whole. In all sincerity, my heart and prayers go out to the East pilots on this one.

 

[pilot]

The list will not exist as it stands today.

If ALPA does not change it ALPA will cease to exist. This isn't a USAirways issue, this is a national ALPA issue. Each and every ALPA carrier has been let down by a poorly thought out merger policy.

This list proves it.

This is Praters wake up call and the wake up call for all of ALPA. At the very least the LCC pilots will decertify ALPA on their property if the list remains intact.

You can take that to the bank.

pilot

 

[smfav8r]

This may have been asked and answered already, but sifting through the 14 pages of posts would take forever.

Does anyone have an accurrate or even guesstimate count of how many pilots on both sides will retire in the next 3 to 5 years?? (Using age 60 since the 65 rule is not in yet in effect)

I know the east side has a large amount of upcoming retirements, but have no idea about the west.

 

[aquagreen73s]

May 4, 2007




Fellow AWA Pilots:

As most of you are aware, the MEC received the merged seniority list late last night under a directive by Chairman Nicolau to release the list at a specific time. That list and the decision is on the secure AWA MEC website and available for download.

The MEC is working with the Merger Committee and outside counsel and advisors to determine what the impact of all the conditions and restrictions will be and what effect and impact each of these conditions and restrictions will have on our 1865 pilots.

Clearly, I have concerns about this list. While on the surface it may appear to many that we prevailed in our ideas about the construction of the list, I will say that placing 517 AAA pilots on top of our Captain list is problematic. Add to this picture a potential change to Age 60 in the very near future (more on that in a bit), a potential third merger and/or industry downturn, and I start to worry.

I hate to be the wet blanket, but from prior experience, I know that this is just the start of a very long process to interpret and enforce the hearing board’s decision, and the pilots of America West pay me to look at and analyze that big picture. We will continue to analyze, interpret, defend and communicate to you as we learn more. Please remember that this merged list cannot be utilized by management until a joint contract is in place.

I would like to thank the Merger Committee and all the outside advisors. They worked their tails off for all AWA pilots, and they all deserve a big thank you.

Fraternally,


Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA Master Executive Council

 

[luvthe9]

Dear Fellow Pilot,

It is my understanding that ALPA International can reject Arbitrator Nicolau’s seniority list. Furthermore, it has come to my attention that ALPA President Captain John Prater’s office is being besieged by US Airways pilots who are informing his secretary of their outrage and indignation with the seniority list integration Opinion & Award.

Therefore, I strongly recommend on Monday that each of you take a few minutes to contact Captain Prater’s office at (703) 689- 2270 or 888-FLY-ALPA and key in “PRAâ€￾. Please let his staff know your concerns and urge him to reject the new list.

Moreover, the timing of calling on Monday or leaving a voice mail message over the weekend is important because the US Airways ALPA MEC will be in special session at ALPA Headquarters on Sunday and Monday and I bet John Prater will be invited to attend.

Please take the time to call.

Regards

 

[nycbusdriver]

... I will say that placing 517 AAA pilots on top of our Captain list is problematic. Add to this picture a potential change to Age 60 in the very near future (more on that in a bit), a potential third merger and/or industry downturn, and I start to worry...

Okay. I understand that this guy is the westies elected leader. But this is outright chutzpah.

Most, if not all, of those 517 AAA pilots were captains at this airline before AWA turned their first Dash-8 prop back in the 1980s. They were placed senior to the AWA pilots because they ARE SENIOR to all of the AWA pilots and flying airplanes that AWA pilots had not dreamed of operating absent the merger with USAirways.

So, McIlvenna, give us a ***king break and get real.

 

[Phoenix]

The list will not exist as it stands today.

If ALPA does not change it ALPA will cease to exist. This isn't a USAirways issue, this is a national ALPA issue. Each and every ALPA carrier has been let down by a poorly thought out merger policy.

This list proves it.

This is Praters wake up call and the wake up call for all of ALPA. At the very least the LCC pilots will decertify ALPA on their property if the list remains intact.

You can take that to the bank.

pilot

I don't doubt that there are the votes to decertify ALPA, but I am curious about the position that the pilots would find themselves in.

With no union, could the comany:

- furlough at will?

- could they throw out the contract unilaterally?

- could they make make Hotel 6 the overnight of choice?

- could they make you sit reserve in the airport for 2 or 3 hours twice a day without pay?

Oh never mind, they already do that.


But seriously, what dastardly options would be available to the company if you decertify and seek a different union?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Huh? Where do people get this stuff?

ALPA Merger Policy:
5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In
joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no
particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

I'm glad you pasted this portion of the ALPA Policy.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

How in the world can anyone think the award meets these criteria? Even outsiders can see that the east pilots were screwed to the advantage of the west pilots.

Nicolau did not meet ALPA Merger Policy. Maybe, as some say, Captain Prater can reject Nicolau's disgrace. Prater better come up with something, or I doubt ALPA will remain on the property for much longer. If this award stands, it could very well tear ALPA apart.

But seriously, what dastardly options would be available to the company if you decertify and seek a different union?

If ALPA were decertified in favor of another union (even an in-house union), the current contract (abysmal as it is) remains in full force under the administration of the new union.

 

[Phoenix]

If ALPA were decertified in favor of another union (even an in-house union), the current contract (abysmal as it is) remains in full force under the administration of the new union.

Then, what the heeeeell are we waiting for? Give me a ballot already!

 

[flyguy121]

May 4, 2007

AWA Pilots:

Clearly, I have concerns about this list. While on the surface it may appear to many that we prevailed in our ideas about the construction of the list, I will say that placing 517 AAA pilots on top of our Captain list is problematic. Add to this picture a potential change to Age 60 in the very near future (more on that in a bit), a potential third merger and/or industry downturn, and I start to worry.

I hate to be the wet blanket, but from prior experience, I know that this is just the start of a very long process to interpret and enforce the hearing board’s decision, and the pilots of America West pay me to look at and analyze that big picture. We will continue to analyze, interpret, defend and communicate to you as we learn more. Please remember that this merged list cannot be utilized by management until a joint contract is in place.

I would like to thank the Merger Committee and all the outside advisors. They worked their tails off for all AWA pilots, and they all deserve a big thank you.

Fraternally,
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA Master Executive Council

Unbelievable. 😱 Talk about kicking your opponent when he's down!

The west pilots are asking for it...this is going to turn into war.

 

[Pylit]

Well, let's see...B scale cost me 200K. A scale for 1 year, then cut, cut, cut. Captain for 2 years, good money, out of the hole. 9-11, downsize, 55% pay cut, no pension, and a medical payment the size of a car payment.
Back in the hole again.
Now, 13 years treated as nothing. Upgrade? HaHaHa.
Calling ALPA tomorrow to quit the union.
Good Luck guys.

 

[autofixer]

I emailed my reps yesterday and told them I am quiting ALPA. Don't forget to remove your red I.D. tags. Decertify now!!!!

 

[700UW]

You can only be a dues objector you will still have to pay what is germane to the CBA it is a condition of employment.

Then you lose all your rights to vote on any matter.

And if you are non-union you think it is bad now, it will be horrible being an employee at will and being at the company's mercy, no gauranted work rules, benefits, pay or anything.

Ask the rampers on the East how 1992 was being non-union.