Pilot seniority arbitration award is out

[diamondcutter]

Simple.

First -

Two different unions: The Associations of Flight Attendants (AFA) and The Airline Pilots Association (ALPA).

These two unions are in no way associated with each other. They are completely independent entities.
Second -

Each independent union has its own merger policy.

The AFA policy is that seniority lists between two carriers represented by AFA be merger by Date of Hire (DOH.) End of story.

The ALPA policy has five criteria that should be met to the maximum extent possible. NONE of these criteria is DOH.

The AFA integration had NOTHING TO DO with the ALPA integration any more than the price of a gallon of gas in Manhattan affects the price of a loaf of bread in Tahiti.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[exB717Flyer]

Have you been reading what your aquaman rep has been writing? Sounds pretty incendiary to me.

You're comparing what our MEC Chairman has been saying to the AAA Chairman? I don't think our guy called Prater to complain.

 

[Dorf]

You're comparing what our MEC Chairman has been saying to the AAA Chairman? I don't think our guy called Prater to complain.

YET! But then doing it this soon would be like an oil company raising the price of gas to $10.00/gal right after announcing the largest single quarterly profit in world history!

 

[CactusFlyr]

I think you need to explain how the AAA merger committee over reached in their proposal. If anything, I think the AWA proposal was way out there.

Maybe a comparison would help.

Mtnman928

I will first state that I am on the West side, and pretty junior/ 11% pre integration. Post integration, I am slightly less, 10%, so I actually lost some. I am also a veteran of the TWA/AA merger- guess which side. I got past it and found greener pastures, as any furloughed pilot should do.
I feel for you guys, but there is no situation in which active AWA pilots jobs should be in danger, save a total meltdown of the industry. Pilots are always looking at things from a growth standpoint, look at it from the other side.
I know you guys will debate this but AWA saved your jobs, or at least extended them for a while. Under AAA's proposal, recalls of furloughed AAA pilots above AW pilots, and then a subsequent furlough would put West pilots on the street at the expense of AAA pilots. Not a very nice thank you for preserving your job.
One other note, furloughed pilots have never been part of active seniority list integration. I fully expect to be cut from the AA list if and when they merge with someone else. I know it is personal to everyone, but try and not get so wound up. I could be worse, as in AA/TWA.

 

[Phoenix]

Game, set, match.

So why ya wasting your time on this board? Your fight is over and you won.

 

[prechilill]

So why ya wasting your time on this board? Your fight is over and you won.

The west pilots didn't win anything, in fact we all lost seniority with this deal.

 

[ab320driver]

I know you guys will debate this but AWA saved your jobs, or at least extended them for a while.

Yeh, you guys were a powerhouse, "saving us" after your own bankruptcy only months before. EAST produces 80% of the profits at this company. You can bet it going to be closer to the 20% that "powerhouse savior" AWA brings in from now on...

 

[A320 Driver]

The west pilots didn't win anything, in fact we all lost seniority with this deal.

Then you are not reading the same award that we on the East are reading. If you're referring to the top 517, those belong to A330 and B767 Captains. West brought none of those aircraft to the party and are not entitled to them. That should have extended to the F/O slots as well.

A320 Driver B)

 

[prechilill]

Then you are not reading the same award that we on the East are reading. If you're referring to the top 517, those belong to A330 and B767 Captains. West brought none of those aircraft to the party and are not entitled to them. That should have extended to the F/O slots as well.

A320 Driver B)

All I wanted was to preserve my seniority in this deal and I didn't. The east guys actually gained relative senioriy. And now all the east pilots are complaining about the decision. Pretty amazing.

 

[aquagreen73s]

All I wanted was to preserve my seniority in this deal and I didn't. The east guys actually gained relative senioriy. And now all the east pilots are complaining about the decision. Pretty amazing.

Complaining? Dude, they're talking about burning the place down because they disagree with the verdict. Not cool. And very un-American.

 

[prechilill]

Complaining? Dude, they're talking about burning the place down because they disagree with the verdict. Not cool. And very un-American.

To handicap: the east pilots gain a few percent of relative seniority at the expense of the west pilots, and easties are complaining the west pilots did not lose enough and therefore they feel obligated to burn down the house. Hmmm. Strange.

 

[Phoenix]

Then you are not reading the same award that we on the East are reading. If you're referring to the top 517, those belong to A330 and B767 Captains. West brought none of those aircraft to the party and are not entitled to them. That should have extended to the F/O slots as well.

A320 Driver B)

The HP pilots math depends on only using a USAir list that is 3000 numbers long instead of 4500. They are completely discounting the fuloughs and the fact that within about four years about 1500 pilots will have retired.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I don't know the exact numbers, but using estimates will make the point.

The easties are being told that a lot of us gained relative seniority. I don't see how, except for the 517 widebody captains and that looks something like this:

Pilot number 300 on the east list was about 9% down that list. Now that same pilot is about 5% down the combined list.

Well sure, it's a gain in relative seniority, but since all the change is behind him it makes no difference to his job or his position for advancement. He still has the same 299 pilots in front of him.

The argument that east pilots gained relative seniority is disingenuous. "Lies, damned lies and statistics" as Benjamin Disraeli said and Mark Twain popularized.

The real travesty is that the opportunities to advance to these 517 wide body jobs has been effectively cutoff from the very people who helped bring them to the table intact.

 

[lithuanian]

This forum is a place for the company to allow venting without action. This seems like a "site" that is void of the counselor.
18 sum pages start with a real situation and end up in a whimsical way.
Our merge is UGLY! It shows how companies come and go. Will we emerge bigger and better, or fold. Will we be awarded what we deserve or become what France and Germany' workers have become. Owned by a few and rewarded for this. This is something everyone of us will deal with thru our lifetime. Call me Philosophical, but we choose where we land. I am in the company of 36,000 but I need to find something that equates to who I am.
I have fought for rites for 10 years and this company still finds a way to short change what seems logical and fair. Best! to the old pilots of US Airways, and the pilots of a Fresh and enthusiasic, thriving new Airline.

 

[aquagreen73s]

To handicap: the east pilots gain a few percent of relative seniority at the expense of the west pilots, and easties are complaining the west pilots did not lose enough and therefore they feel obligated to burn down the house. Hmmm. Strange.

Fortunately this reaction is rather rare in America - the rule of law is respected in most cases. Although at first glance it appears odd to be pairing 2000 hires with '87 hires, that result is nevertheless explained by the circumstances. But I was completely unprepared for the widespread Eastshock and hysteria. An objective and detached weighing of the facts clearly supports what Nicolau and both pilot neutrals decided. To characterize the award as being unjust is totally off base. And it's insulting to those who have truly suffered injustice.