Pilot seniority arbitration award is out

[nycbusdriver]

Fortunately this reaction is rather rare in America - the rule of law is respected in most cases. Although at first glance it appears odd to be pairing 2000 hires with '87 hires, that result is nevertheless explained by the circumstances. But I was completely unprepared for the widespread Eastshock and hysteria. An objective and detached weighing of the facts clearly supports what Nicolau and both pilot neutrals decided. To characterize the award as being unjust is totally off base. And it's insulting to those who have truly suffered injustice.

That planet where you live -- is there oxygen there?

 

[aquagreen73s]

That planet where you live -- is there oxygen there?

Yes. There's also reason, logic, and respect for the law. Want me to export some to where you're at?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yes. There's also reason, logic, and respect for the law. Want me to export some to where you're at?

Although I obviously don't agree with the sentiment, I have to admit:

Good comeback!

 

[flynomore]

[edit to blah, blah] To characterize the award as being unjust is totally off base. And it's insulting to those who have truly suffered injustice.

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In other words, the only fair seniority integration is one where I am ahead of you. Is that your position in a nutshell?

I'll ask again since none of the turquois apologists will answer: Just how many jobs out of the 850 odd positions lost to the last man on the AAA list did AWA bring? I am guessing 4/9--meaning that the AWA FOs got all the benefit.

So just what are the ratification requirements for the joint contract? and how is the proper mix created to make a yes? This is all that Glass and Associates care about.

 

[ab320driver]

Yes. There's also reason, logic, and respect for the law. Want me to export some to where you're at?

So we're supposed to sit back and watch DECADES of seniority get flushed down the toilet, while some newbie Westie enjoys the fruits of our sacrifice. How about keeping everything separate? Disrespectful? How about voting NO to every contract presented? Disrespectful? This is going to be two VERY divided pilot groups if they're put together. Keep 'em separate, that way, there is no disrespect to anyone.(Unless you somehow feel entitled to my Paris trip out of Philly)...

 

[prechilill]

Yes. There's also reason, logic, and respect for the law. Want me to export some to where you're at?

 

[safety stud]

I was out flying when we heard the bid had come out. As we were on a 3 day 737. We had gone through 9 cockpit crew members. We, the flight attendants, remained for the duration of the trip. We asked each how they were effected. The average was around 700 numbers, the most was 1796... This is just an outrage... But yet...and I know I'm not going to be liked for saying this...

The original U pilots should have given up ALPA when DOH was taken away by UAL when there was talk of a U/UAL merger.

The east coast pilots have known this could happen. It was up to you back in the late 90's to decertify ALPA.

When DOH is taken away from a legacy carrier. The ones most effected by this unfortunately is the carrier with the most seniority.

What the arbitrator did was a travesty. I feel for you. But I can't in my right mind say I didn't see this coming.

NEVER GIVE UP YOUR MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE: SENIORITY!!!![/color]

Just my opinion...

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Did someone not do their homework thus let history repeat itself?

US Airways pilot seniority integrations history including The Nicolau award for US Airways Shuttle

How soon we forget.

US Airwaves Sept/Oct 2000

A negotiated solution, also based on date of hire with conditions and restrictions, was again achieved when Allegheny purchased and merged operations with New York based Mohawk in 1972. The combination of these lists was complicated by the fact that some Mohawk pilots were on furlough at the time of the merger. The final resolution provided that the furloughees’ dates of hire were adjusted with regard to that furlough.

 

[FLYLOW22]

What does "no bump / no flush" mean?

Bump is what happpened to our positions on the seniority list.

Flush was the sound of our airline career going buh bye.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Why dont the east pilots insist that all "seniority" based items in the contract be based upon a pilots Date of Hire...

It would solve everything, all bidding awards are done by DOH not the "seniority list"

They have more votes, they could ramrod it thru!!

They could live with the current list and use it as a dart board.....

All capt upgrades, vacation, lines of time, etc. would be based upon their DOH.

As a matter of fact you could create all kinds of list:

1) seniority list
2) pilots with multiple divorces
3) pilots with motorcycles

It would be worth the assesment for legal fee's just to watch the circus, but all the important bidding would come to all pilots in due time via their DOH!!

Voila! Problem solved.....

 

[flynomore]

Yes indeed--and we all thought the minimum captain and no furlough clause was a circus.

One way or another this award will drive a stake through the seniority system for pilots. It is too bad that the only MEC more disfunctional than ours in all of ALPA can't stop the high fiving long enough to notice.

Dum basses.

 

[CaptBud330]

"A negotiated solution, also based on date of hire with conditions and restrictions, was again achieved when Allegheny purchased and merged operations with New York based Mohawk in 1972. The combination of these lists was complicated by the fact that some Mohawk pilots were on furlough at the time of the merger. The final resolution provided that the furloughees’ dates of hire were adjusted with regard to that furlough."

Actually, our seniority was adjusted for furlough time, our date of hire remained what it was when we were hired at Mohawk. My date of hire was 8/26/68 and after the furlough adjustment, I was placed behind Allegheny pilots hired in 1969. That cost me 2 years on the beach and 2 years more yanking the gear during the first fuel crisis. Seniority is EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

"A negotiated solution, also based on date of hire with conditions and restrictions, was again achieved when Allegheny purchased and merged operations with New York based Mohawk in 1972. The combination of these lists was complicated by the fact that some Mohawk pilots were on furlough at the time of the merger. The final resolution provided that the furloughees’ dates of hire were adjusted with regard to that furlough."

Actually, our seniority was adjusted for furlough time, our date of hire remained what it was when we were hired at Mohawk. My date of hire was 8/26/68 and after the furlough adjustment, I was placed behind Allegheny pilots hired in 1969. That cost me 2 years on the beach and 2 years more yanking the gear during the first fuel crisis. Seniority is EVERYTHING!!!

Thanks for correction. It was cut and pasted from ALPA publication.

I think everyone agrees "Seniority is EVERYTHING". So how could anyone let their seniority get to the point of binding Arbitration?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Yes. There's also reason, logic, and respect for the law. Want me to export some to where you're at?

Don't worry sweetheart, if we're oxygen deprived it's coming your way, but don't say you weren't warned.

Later,
Eye

 

[cactusflyer]

I think everyone agrees "Seniority is EVERYTHING". So how could anyone let their seniority get to the point of binding Arbitration?

That, Charlie, is the million dollar question.

I also have a more serious question and I'm asking because I honestly don't know the answer. Have furloughed pilots at any airline ever been considered part of an active senority list integration when a merger has occurred?