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pilots going to merger talks wheres the TWU

This is the frustrating part. Did anyone here even look at the information I posted? Specifically, did anyone look at the numbers breakdown on the airline financials site?

I'm running short on time today but I'll respond to this because I'll keep it brief. Yes, I read it, and I'm very familiar with the finances of AA and its competitors over the past decade.

I don't think anyone is going to argue with you (or Bob Herbst) that AA had a serious erosion of revenue in the two years leading up to the bankruptcy filing. And a lot of what you posted addressed that. My response to that is "who cares?" The guy responsible for that failing, Gerard Arpey, is gone. And except for Tom Horton, so are all the other upper management.

What I didn't see addressed is what I'll call "the what have you done for me lately" info. Specifically, Horton has been in charge for just over one year and in that time, AA's revenue performance has improved at a better rate than UA or US (and has about kept pace with DL's revenue gains). AA's mainline yield is the highest in the industry for the first nine months of 2012. Higher than Delta, UA or US. I used mainline yield because, as you know, 2-class RJs (all RJs) generally produce much higher yields, and AA is at a serious disadvantage with just 47 of them. Not to worry, though, because Horton's plan is to add 200 to 250 more of them, all seating 76 passengers. DL, UA and US already have, combined, several hundred 2-class large RJs (seating 55-76). These RJs will enable AA to finally gain on the consolidated PRASM advantage shared by DL, UA and US. Their consolidated unit revenue figures are all much higher than AA due to the large number of 2-class RJs.

As Horton said the other day, AA was profitable for in the second and third quarters (excluding reorg and special one-time items) even without most of the cost savings achieved in Ch 11 (which begin to kick in now). If AA had enjoyed the labor and other cost savings for the first nine months of 2012 (that it will have in 2013), then AA would have been the most profitable airline among AA, UA, DL and US during those first three quarters. Change has already happened. And, of course, since it doesn't fit the script (we cannot survive without US and Doug Parker), nobody wants to admit it.

Nobody likes the yields in CLT? Nobody likes the market share numbers? Nobody likes the fact that US Airways serves MORE cities in Europe than AA?

US yields are great in CLT, but the costs are also very high, as so much of it arrives and departs on high-cost planes. Lots of 2-class RJs and even more 50 seaters and lotsa props. AA wants 2-class RJs to serve JFK, LGA and ORD, where those large RJs will pull in very high revenue (like DL and UA are already doing).

Other than pimply-faced teenage readers of airliners.net, who cares how many cities in Europe US serves? That "dots on the map" analysis doesn't tell me about revenue and profits. As your colleague AAviator recently posted, AA has more daily seats to London than US flies to all of its European destinations. It's not about dots on the map, it's about flying to where the First Class and Business Class passengers want to go. The big spenders - they generally focus on London. None of US' European cities (other than London) are restricted markets - AA can fly to any of them with some of its hundreds of new planes on order. You don't need to merge with US for AA to serve LIS or any other European destination served by US.

What about the analysis of the combined networks and the much needed revenue bump we need?

Come on you guys. Your plans seem to revolve around emotion and feelings rather than pragmatic analysis of the alternatives we need to choose from.

AA has increased its revenue by about a billion dollars this year even before any of the cost savings kicked in. And before a single new 76 seat 2-class RJ took to the sky. And before any of the 14 new 77Ws begin flying. And before any of the 42 787-9s were delivered. And so on.

Many AA employees are so desparate to declare Horton's plan DOA before it even takes effect. If that's not emotionally driven . . .

I see a several billion dollar revenue bump driven by the addition of 250+ large 2-class RJs with 76 seats each. Several billion dollars more as the old MD-80s are replaced by new, modern planes (I realize that the MD-80s could fly forever but some customers decry them as old and undesirable). Not just replacement - we're talking about growth airplanes. And several billion dollars driven by the new international routes that 14 new 77Ws can open up. Those transcon A321s? Yes, Virgin America and Spirit will win the JFK-LAX/SFO race once those planes are flying. [/sarcasm] Those planes will take business away from UA and DL.

I just don't see the need for an immediate $13 billion of revenue that is profitable solely becsuse Chip Munn, Capt Sulley and others willingly fly 737s and A320s for a mere $125/hr, combined with FAs who would need raises of 25% to 35% just to get to parity with AA's FA wages. Bring the US employees up to AA payscales and the entire US side becomes unprofitable.

Low-cost airlines tend to grow and high-cost airlines tend to shrink. You've seen a lot of that in action the last 10 years. Now that AA has finally lowered its costs, it's time to grow - organically, like airline employees generally prefer. And yet you're banging the "we can't survive without merging with US" drum.

Yes, PHL looks good as does DCA. And there's no denying that AA can't carry someone from RIC to JAX without a Charlotte or Atlanta. And building up RDU again is a nonstarter. Can't be all things to all people. DL can't fly people around intra-Texas in its current setting. UA has almost no presence in South Florida. And AA is not strong in NASCAR-country (US Southeast).

You are wrong to assume this. This is the reason that all 3 unions are on board with this deal. When you look at the CLAs negotiated by all 3 groups, the final product will be equal or just slightly off carriers that have been out of BK for a few years. Interestingly enough, our CLA may even end up being better than "industry standard" in a few areas. I know for a fact the United MEC was delaying the release of their TA to the membership until ours was voted in. They did not want us getting a better contract in bankruptcy than they negotiated in regular Section 6. Although their TA (yet to be ratified) is superior to our latest offer, we may surpass them once the terms of the CLA kick in.

So much for being the whores of the airline industry.

Ahh, so in this paragraph the real motivation shines thru. It's not so much about making AA profitable and positioning AA to compete against the competition, it's about the never-ending hope that you can squeeze just a few dollars more out of management. There's nothing wrong with doing so, but don't tell everyone you care about AA's revenue and profitability in one breath and then admit with the next that you really just want Parker to give you mo' money right now.

Gotta give Parker credit where credit is due: He's got you and others cheerleading for a merger of completely unequals in the hopes that he'll do what he hasn't done for his own employees since 2005: Pay his pilots and FAs more money. Some AA employees are so eager to make as much (or more) money, right now, than DL or UA employees, that they're willing to whore themselves out trying to sell a misguided merger with ugly-girl US. A rather expensive ugly girl, at that.

Now if LCC shareholders get no more than 15% of the combined equity and AMR creditors get 85%, that wouldn't be quite as ugly a deal.
 
First step, fire the team thats in place and hire Herb Kellerher or Gordon Bethune, or even Crandall, people who have run profitable airlines.

Everyone who is favor of this cites that it will make us the biggest carrier, but is Southwest the biggest? Is Jet Blue the biggest? What valuable markets does USAIR bring to the table?

But the last carrier I'd like to see us merge with is USAIR and create a mega carrier with super low wages that will simply send the rest of the industry into another round of concessionary bargaining. There wont be big profits to provide us wage increases, those other people on the UCC will all make out, higher landing fees, higher lease rates, higher fuel costs, the money will go

Great post Bob, an AA USAIR merger would be disastrous for all involved. jetBlue or another carrier would be awesome but USAIR blows, especially if the IAM is the collective bargaining agent.

Josh
 
Gotta give Parker credit where credit is due: He's got you and others cheerleading for a merger of completely unequals in the hopes that he'll do what he hasn't done for his own employees since 2005: Pay his pilots and FAs more money. Some AA employees are so eager to make as much (or more) money, right now, than DL or UA employees, that they're willing to whore themselves out trying to sell a misguided merger with ugly-girl US. A rather expensive ugly girl, at that.



So with that said, and a merger dose take place, then down the road a bit Parker says that the airlines costs are too high to compete. Will we then go through the whole take concessions or if you don't do it we'll get cost reductions through BK? Just food for thought.
 
So with that said, and a merger dose take place, then down the road a bit Parker says that the airlines costs are too high to compete. Will we then go through the whole take concessions or if you don't do it we'll get cost reductions through BK? Just food for thought.

Probably wouldn't hesitate one second!!!
 
So? The component companies that make up US have been there three times, twice in the past decade.

On its own this year, AA has increased its yield and unit revenue far more than has Doug Parker at US. And with the labor savings and other cost cuts, AA is set to be a very profitable airline in 2013.

Broke? $4 billion in cash, so no need to kowtow to DIP lenders nor go begging for exit financing.

Oh, and about those wages: Even with the painful bankruptcy concessions imposed on the AA employees, AA's labor costs are still far higher than at US. Thank all those $125/hr 737/A320 pilots in the East for that. Thank all the US FAs who would need raises of 25% to 35% to bring them up to AA payscales. In the second and third quarters of 2012, AA was profitable (excluding reorg expenses and special items) even before it achieved any wage cuts.

Desperation is setting in among the Tempe execs and for good reason: AA's creditors have plenty of financial data, some of which tends to show that handing a large portion of their AMR claims to US isn't in their best interests. Parker knows it, the creditors know it - and without AA, US is in a world of hurt.
Yes broke. How long do you think 4 billion will last AA upon bankruptcy exit and Horton on The Throne. My guess not even 1 year and AA files Chapter 7.
 
Anyone who still believes that a merger with USAir is a good deal must have a personal, self serving financial interest. After all the information on USAir over the years you must be on the take. BK more than once. Turned down on previous merger attempts by two airlines that I am aware of. Can not settle seniority issues with its own workers. Can negotiate contracts with its own work groups. Unable to streamline work rules with its employees. USAir comes over to American Airlines unions and makes all kinds of offers yet Parker is unwilling to settle his own problems. Our pensions are frozen but USAir dumped theirs to the PBGC. Who is to say that in five years or so USAir will dump our frozen pensions over as well? Who is to stop them if USAir will fail again and threaten BK after a failed merger? Something to think about. NO THANKS! You can keep the dysfunctional airline to yourself. We at AA have our own dysfunctional issues to deal with. If your house was in order you would not be chasing another airline to merge with.
 
Yes broke. How long do you think 4 billion will last AA upon bankruptcy exit and Horton on The Throne. My guess not even 1 year and AA files Chapter 7.

Just because they filed for ch 11 doesn't mean their broke guy. This filing wasn't about not having money but more of a union busting bankruptcy. I've been at bankrupt airlines before and this definitely is way different.

 
Yes broke. How long do you think 4 billion will last AA upon bankruptcy exit and Horton on The Throne. My guess not even 1 year and AA files Chapter 7.

Uhh, yeah. Whatever you say.

For the grownups who were having a semi-serious discussion, AA generated $1.567 billion of cash flow from operations in the first three quarters of 2012, 4.5 times more than the same period of 2011.

For the first three quarters of 2012, US generated $887 million in cash flow from operations, almost double the amount from the first three quarters of 2011.
 
Actually US mechanics make slightly more than AA mechanics and CLT is one of the most low cost airports to operate out of.
 
Actually US mechanics make slightly more than AA mechanics and CLT is one of the most low cost airports to operate out of.
Is that because of the automatic wage increase? Are you still talking with management?
 
AA's mainline yield is the highest in the industry for the first nine months of 2012.

Where are you getting these numbers? I am looking at BTS numbers and they don't even have Q3 data available yet.
 
Where are you getting these numbers? I am looking at BTS numbers and they don't even have Q3 data available yet.

I'm using the publicly reported numbers from the 3Q earnings releases.

AA: http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3587
UA: http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=83680&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1749882&highlight=
DL: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1742
US: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=196799&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=1749268&highlight=

DL doesn't report mainline-only numbers in its earnings reports, only consolidated, so the mainline yield and PRASM has to be computed.
 
As I stated in an earlier post...Today the APFA signed an NDA and have been invited to join in the AA/USAir merger talks. Look for the AFA and TWU to be asked in the near future.
 
Don V. and Vanderloo are also trying to straighten out the rif mess they created with out first getting the seniority
issues handled.

They also have not got the time to deal with all the vacancies around the system.




Are you one of the AMFA guys being laid off in MIA?

If you are, I'm sure you went to the meeting and got your RIF question answered.
 

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