Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
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On 5/29/2003 10:58:34 PM exagony wrote:
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On 5/29/2003 10:58:34 PM exagony wrote:
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Read your private mail!
Pittsburgh Pilots Fed Up
- Thread starter mrplanes
- Start date
Read your private mail!
A320 Driver
Veteran
The Pit pilots did what they did, but that doesn''t mean the whole MEC is going to melt down. As for Tim Baker the Captain Rep, there isn''t a finer man at USAirways...period. He did his best in an awful situation. His loss (if he loses) is a loss for the whole pilot group.
A320 Driver
A320 Driver
Flufdriver
Senior
Oh please 320Driver...the guy sold us down the river. Are you drinking that corporate "Kool-Aid" or what???
Tim Baker is a fine person and brought civility to PIT.
Now it''s back to the steel mills.
Aren''t the PIT pilots (and PIT in general)always fed up?
Now it''s back to the steel mills.
Aren''t the PIT pilots (and PIT in general)always fed up?
- Thread Starter
- #20
320:
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
mr,
mr said:
>The pilots are positioning the new leadership of their union to compel this management to follow the contracts they negotiated and to make this company profitable. Nothing more. Nothing less. You can rag on us if it makes you feel better but the bottom line is simply that we gave him what he wanted, and now he is trying to take more. That is not going to happen. At least not with the pilots. That is why the recall vote was so overwhelming.
mr<
What makes you think that the PIT LEC meeting represents how the silent majority feel in PIT? The loud mouths are who showed at the meeting, anyone with ANY sense would not waste their time attempting to talk sense into a mob like that.
Time will tell if there is a successful recall.
It took courage to do what Tim did, the easy way out would have been to just say no.
mr said:
>The pilots are positioning the new leadership of their union to compel this management to follow the contracts they negotiated and to make this company profitable. Nothing more. Nothing less. You can rag on us if it makes you feel better but the bottom line is simply that we gave him what he wanted, and now he is trying to take more. That is not going to happen. At least not with the pilots. That is why the recall vote was so overwhelming.
mr<
What makes you think that the PIT LEC meeting represents how the silent majority feel in PIT? The loud mouths are who showed at the meeting, anyone with ANY sense would not waste their time attempting to talk sense into a mob like that.
Time will tell if there is a successful recall.
It took courage to do what Tim did, the easy way out would have been to just say no.
PITbull
Veteran
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On 6/3/2003 1
10 PM mrplanes wrote:
320:
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
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On 6/3/2003 1
10 PM mrplanes wrote: 320:
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
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Mrplanes,
I just think your posts are so insightful, and "right on".
Wish we could make you CEO...you'd have my vote and support!
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
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On 6/3/2003 110 PM mrplanes wrote:
320:
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
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On 6/3/2003 1
10 PM mrplanes wrote: 320:
Not back to the steel mills. Back to forcing this company to adhere to the contracts they negotiated. Baker did what he thought was right. Unfortunately, he promised we would have a vote on the pension issue NO MATTER WHAT THREAT was issued by management. That did not happen.
The MEC is about to melt down because of the heat of the pilots that are fed up with the threats of management and the capitulation of the MEC. Recalls will be forthcoming at each base. Seigel will be forced to do his job within the confines of his negotiated contracts. If he cannot, he will be replaced. The BOD is NOT made up of his cronies. He is going to have to perform and we are going to make certain he does. Or he will go the same route as the MEC.
Baker is a nice guy. So are most guys on the MEC. Seigel is not a nice guy. We are finished giving. It is time for him to put up or get out. The new MEC will not be intimidated by threats and doom and gloom. If this airline cannot make money based on what we and the rest of the employees have given then we need a management that can work with the tools Seigel has negotiated. There is nothing Baker, or this MEC, can do to convince Seigel they have any backbone or will stand up to his threats. So they are gone.
mr
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Nice post mr,
To be even more specific, he initiated a resolution to give back the pilots their rightful vote . Then when he discovered that the resolution was about to pass he voted against it . His was the one vote needed.
Now he is being held accountable for his politicking.
- Thread Starter
- #24
Precisely FatherA. And thanks for the compliment Bull.
Useyourhead, there were about 80 pilots in that room. There were 277 votes for the recall with the proxies those 80 pilots were carrying. 277 represents about 42% of the PIT pilots. The recall is a done deal. And while I agree about a few loudmouths, that was pure venting of frustration with Tim as well as Seigel. You cannot talk "sense" using nonsensical logic. Baker was illogical in promising the pilots a vote and then not allowing it. That was his downfall. The downfall of a good man I might add. Too good to understand and realize what Seigel is attempting to do. The FORMER silent majority has found their voices. And the MEC will be recalled by that former silent majority. This isn''t about retribution. This is about fighting fire with fire. We allowed the givebacks. We allowed the pension termination. Had Seigel stuck to his committments that he negotiated with us this would not be happening. But he has not.
Don''t mistake this effort as a "loudmouth mob mentality". We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
Useyourhead, there were about 80 pilots in that room. There were 277 votes for the recall with the proxies those 80 pilots were carrying. 277 represents about 42% of the PIT pilots. The recall is a done deal. And while I agree about a few loudmouths, that was pure venting of frustration with Tim as well as Seigel. You cannot talk "sense" using nonsensical logic. Baker was illogical in promising the pilots a vote and then not allowing it. That was his downfall. The downfall of a good man I might add. Too good to understand and realize what Seigel is attempting to do. The FORMER silent majority has found their voices. And the MEC will be recalled by that former silent majority. This isn''t about retribution. This is about fighting fire with fire. We allowed the givebacks. We allowed the pension termination. Had Seigel stuck to his committments that he negotiated with us this would not be happening. But he has not.
Don''t mistake this effort as a "loudmouth mob mentality". We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
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On 6/4/2003 7
20 AM mrplanes wrote:
...We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
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On 6/4/2003 7
20 AM mrplanes wrote: ...We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
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I hope you''re right.
I hope we can.
Sounds like ALPA needs the same WAKE-UP call as the mighty IAM needs. These unions need to be reminded that they work for the RANK & FILE MEMBERSHIP..We do not need any more WE-.....meaning upper union leadership-......know whats best for You mentality !! It''s time for the dues paying members to take back their respective UNIONS..DEMAND voting rights on your own contracts and other issues. And when the membership votes on a issue, THATS the FINAL decision !!. NO NEED FOR A SECOND VOTE in order to get the decision that is in the best interest of the UNION LEADERSHIP.
PITbull
Veteran
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On 6/4/2003 720 AM mrplanes wrote:
Precisely FatherA. And thanks for the compliment Bull.
Useyourhead, there were about 80 pilots in that room. There were 277 votes for the recall with the proxies those 80 pilots were carrying. 277 represents about 42% of the PIT pilots. The recall is a done deal. And while I agree about a few loudmouths, that was pure venting of frustration with Tim as well as Seigel. You cannot talk "sense" using nonsensical logic. Baker was illogical in promising the pilots a vote and then not allowing it. That was his downfall. The downfall of a good man I might add. Too good to understand and realize what Seigel is attempting to do. The FORMER silent majority has found their voices. And the MEC will be recalled by that former silent majority. This isn''t about retribution. This is about fighting fire with fire. We allowed the givebacks. We allowed the pension termination. Had Seigel stuck to his committments that he negotiated with us this would not be happening. But he has not.
Don''t mistake this effort as a "loudmouth mob mentality". We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
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On 6/4/2003 7
20 AM mrplanes wrote: Precisely FatherA. And thanks for the compliment Bull.
Useyourhead, there were about 80 pilots in that room. There were 277 votes for the recall with the proxies those 80 pilots were carrying. 277 represents about 42% of the PIT pilots. The recall is a done deal. And while I agree about a few loudmouths, that was pure venting of frustration with Tim as well as Seigel. You cannot talk "sense" using nonsensical logic. Baker was illogical in promising the pilots a vote and then not allowing it. That was his downfall. The downfall of a good man I might add. Too good to understand and realize what Seigel is attempting to do. The FORMER silent majority has found their voices. And the MEC will be recalled by that former silent majority. This isn''t about retribution. This is about fighting fire with fire. We allowed the givebacks. We allowed the pension termination. Had Seigel stuck to his committments that he negotiated with us this would not be happening. But he has not.
Don''t mistake this effort as a "loudmouth mob mentality". We are going to force this management to bring this airline back. Or find someone who will. We have the best franchise in the industry with a kickbutt cost structure. And we are finished listening to why we can''t make money. It is time to make money. And not by more "cost reductions". This is about revenue production. That is management''s job. Not ours. It''s about standing up to a management that is attempting a land grab. And ALPA is finished allowing it.
mr
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mr,
That''s like poetry...God, I love you guys.
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