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If current prices remain for a while (or go up), most people will be forced to re-think their wasteful ways.


So you say you support high gas prices....Ok..and you say you support higher taxes on the higher gas prices...OK ??...now please justify the...

High profits on the HIGH fuel prices.

Is this our medicine, punishment or is it just plain "conditioning" to get us to all drive less, save more, waste not? Who put corporate America in charge of teaching the American public a lesson on Energy Conservation????!!!
 
Previous Post:
If current prices remain for a while (or go up), most people will be forced to re-think their wasteful ways.
So you say you support high gas prices....Ok..and you say you support higher taxes on the higher gas prices...OK ??...now please justify the...

High profits on the HIGH fuel prices.

Is this our medicine, punishment or is it just plain "conditioning" to get us to all drive less, save more, waste not? Who put corporate America in charge of teaching the American public a lesson on Energy Conservation????!!!

I think you may have misunderstood my views. I have long been in favor of higher gas taxes, but the politicians of both parties failed to enact the higher taxes. Now that the world oil prices have skyrocketed, I don't think we need to boost gas taxes as much.

When gas prices fell to $0.609/gal in 1986, THAT's when the nickel or dime each year gas tax increase would have been a good idea.

Had the politicians voted for a nickel or dime increase each year, the cumulative effect would have likely prevented people from considering such wasteful vehicles.

About the high profits: Most big oil companies own huge oil reserves, plus they buy oil on the open market to refine and sell. They bought those oil reserves when oil was cheap, so it's logical that their profits would skyrocket when oil went from $10-$12 in 1998-1999 to $75 the other day. Buy Low, Sell High. Nothing evil or sinister about that.

Huge profits don't anger me. It's the whole goal of free enterprise.

Microsoft's profit margin has been about 40% - 60% of its revenues for many years now. Same at other tech firms. Dell's profits have been huge, and their stock has done very well. Some companies have long histories of consistent profits. In my house, profits don't equal evil.

You asked who put Corporate America in charge of teaching us about energy conservation. My opinion is that the politicians, both Democrat and Republican, did it by failing to enact real measures to encourage conservation (as discussed above re: gas taxes).

Ever since 1973, our federal politicians have dreamed up well-meaning but completely ineffective incentives to drive less and conserve energy, like the federal fuel economy vehicle standards (CAFE?). They worked, sort of. The average vehicle now achieves about double the MPG of the typical 1973 vehicle.

Problem is, lotsa people have bought fuel efficient cars like Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas, and then they move farther away from where they work, and thus burn as much (or more) gas than they did 20 or more years ago. Urban sprawl continues in many locations. Tulsa and Dallas/Fort Worth are prime examples. Land has been relatively cheap, and there's been no financial incentives to stay close to the jobsite.

I live in Los Angeles, home to millions of hypocritical Democrats (and a few Greedy Republicans, like myself) who talk a good game about the evils of SUVs and wasteful gas consumption, and yet buy them and drive them like there's no tomorrow.

Yesterday, while dropping my kids off at school, a friend with an Excursion (that's one big-ass truck) was driving a crappy old economy beater. I asked "Where's the big Ford?" The answer: "Parked it due to $120 fillups that last only a week." (FWIW, it's one of the few vehicles that sported Bush/Cheney bumper stickers last fall.)

I don't deny that there will be short-term pain (maybe even long-term pain) from higher energy prices. We should have started down this road in 1986 when oil prices collapsed. But both political parties failed us miserably, and now we have the Chinese, the Indians, and the people of the former USSR (total population of over 2.7 billion people in those three regions) competing with us for oil. And those people are just beginning to use it the way we always have. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that increased demand equals higher prices. For most of my life, it's been cheap. Cheaper than milk. Cheaper than beer. Too damn cheap, IMO. That's changing now, and I hope the change is permanent.
 
Selfishly, for the airline industry, had fuel not been so cheap all along, we wouldn't have had nearly as many of the LCC's start up and fail during the 80's and 90's. That in turn might have helped the industry weather the ups/downs better, sort of how the Asian and Euro carriers have done. Sure, they've got startups to contend with as well, but it's on a much smaller scale than what you have here.

I also suspect that Amtrak would have been a little more profitable, and we'd see high speed rail in a few more places than just in the northeast corridor and on small segments of the Pacific coast.
 
Stop whinging, we're paying nearly $9 a gallon on London...get over it
Yea but thats an Imperial gallon which is about 5 US quarts plus most of that $9 is tax that is used to fund your medical, provide college for your kids, make sure you have a pension, and provide an effecient mass transit system making the need for cars less, plus you guys did not take the cuts we did.

How much Vacation do you guys have each year?

How many paid Holidays? Over in England they have what they call "Bank Holidays", they have so many they dont even bother naming them anymore!

How much sick time do you get?

How much IOD time?

How much would you collect if you were laid off, on the dole?

How much do you pay out every week for medical and how big is your deductable?
 
Last night on 60 Minutes they did a story on oil. There was a gentleman who said it is his mission to bring alternative fuels, ethanol, to the US economy. He said that a TOP oil company executive told him point blank, "Be VERY careful what you wish for." It was a threat that if this man got his way then the oil companies would lower the price of fuel enough where people would stay with oil and not alternatives.
 
I think you may have misunderstood my views. I have long been in favor of higher gas taxes, but the politicians of both parties failed to enact the higher taxes. Now that the world oil prices have skyrocketed, I don't think we need to boost gas taxes as much.

When gas prices fell to $0.609/gal in 1986, THAT's when the nickel or dime each year gas tax increase would have been a good idea.

Had the politicians voted for a nickel or dime increase each year, the cumulative effect would have likely prevented people from considering such wasteful vehicles.

About the high profits: Most big oil companies own huge oil reserves, plus they buy oil on the open market to refine and sell. They bought those oil reserves when oil was cheap, so it's logical that their profits would skyrocket when oil went from $10-$12 in 1998-1999 to $75 the other day. Buy Low, Sell High. Nothing evil or sinister about that.

Huge profits don't anger me. It's the whole goal of free enterprise.

Much stuff deleted...

I voted Perot, and he wanted to raise the gasoline tax $).10 per year to $.50, maybe we should have listened.

Perot also did a study of the Texas educational system, for which he was villified. How dare he question astroturf in HS football stadiums? Maybe if there were more emphasis on their little angel's academic performance and less on highly organized sports, more people would as adults be able to make sense of what is going on around them.
 
I voted Perot, and he wanted to raise the gasoline tax $).10 per year to $.50, maybe we should have listened.

Perot also did a study of the Texas educational system, for which he was villified. How dare he question astroturf in HS football stadiums? Maybe if there were more emphasis on their little angel's academic performance and less on highly organized sports, more people would as adults be able to make sense of what is going on around them.
Wow, a post of yours that I can agree 100% with, now that's a first. :up: :up: 😛

BTW...I voted for him to.
 
Last night on 60 Minutes they did a story on oil. There was a gentleman who said it is his mission to bring alternative fuels, ethanol, to the US economy. He said that a TOP oil company executive told him point blank, "Be VERY careful what you wish for." It was a threat that if this man got his way then the oil companies would lower the price of fuel enough where people would stay with oil and not alternatives.
I saw the same program Ken. It looks like big oil doesn't like the fact that we could be free of the oil monkey (and Arabs!), but its might take away the CEO's billions. Brazil is going to be Arab/oil free very soon on ethanol from sugar cane they grow, why can't we do it on corn? Because big business and big oil doesn't want it. :down: :down:
 
I saw the same program Ken. It looks like big oil doesn't like the fact that we could be free of the oil monkey (and Arabs!), but its might take away the CEO's billions. Brazil is going to be Arab/oil free very soon on ethanol from sugar cane they grow, why can't we do it on corn? Because big business and big oil doesn't want it. :down: :down:

Or perhaps its because Ethanol made with Corn is far less efficient than Ethanol made with Sugar Cane, therefore far more expensive to produce?
 
Or perhaps its because Ethanol made with Corn is far less efficient than Ethanol made with Sugar Cane, therefore far more expensive to produce?
Well according to the program, it's pretty much the same stuff, fermented corn or sugar results in....alcohol. It's really just an industrial size still. The show even stated fuel plants could be set up at food processing plants using left over orange peels and other waste for conversion into fuel. Thereby reducing dramatically the cost of fuel production. Also, GM and Ford now both produce cars and trucks sold in Brazil called "Flex Fuel", which burns both Ethanol and/or Gasoline. Ethanol fuel could be as low as .070 a gallon.

It was a well done program, It would work here in the US and could be done with minimal investment, but big business and big oil wouldn't make the billions bilking the consumers at the pump as they do now. It looks like the farmers would be getting rich....and we can't have that. :unsure:
 
Well according to the program, it's pretty much the same stuff, fermented corn or sugar results in....alcohol. It's really just an industrial size still. The show even stated fuel plants could be set up at food processing plants using left over orange peels and other waste for conversion into fuel. Thereby reducing dramatically the cost of fuel production. Also, GM and Ford now both produce cars and trucks sold in Brazil called "Flex Fuel", which burns both Ethanol and/or Gasoline. Ethanol fuel could be as low as .070 a gallon.

It was a well done program, It would work here in the US and could be done with minimal investment, but big business and big oil wouldn't make the billions bilking the consumers at the pump as they do now. It looks like the farmers would be getting rich....and we can't have that. :unsure:

Come on lets get serious, you're dreaming. You really don't think that if it was so easy someone wouldn't do it? Explain to me exactly how "Big Business" benefits from high gas prices? Who do think owns "Big Business" and "Big Oil"? People like you and me in pension funds and mutual funds.

Check out LSU Study on Ethanol

See who is investing in Ethanol Money being invested into Ethanol production

The plain fact is that Ethanol might be a part of the energy solution, but the technology isn't here yet and its not because "Big Oil" is holding magic formula hostage.
 
Come on lets get serious, you're dreaming. You really don't think that if it was so easy someone wouldn't do it? Explain to me exactly how "Big Business" benefits from high gas prices? Who do think owns "Big Business" and "Big Oil"? People like you and me in pension funds and mutual funds.

Check out LSU Study on Ethanol

See who is investing in Ethanol Money being invested into Ethanol production

The plain fact is that Ethanol might be a part of the energy solution, but the technology isn't here yet and its not because "Big Oil" is holding magic formula hostage.

Watch the program, and make your own decisions smart guy. I am certainly not going to argue with an intellect as powerful as the great omnipotent Oneflyer. 🙄

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374/

Here is another link:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

What's this mean Oneflyer?

Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the price of oil?

Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up to me and said, “Be careful.” In a very warning tone he said, “Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline.”
 
Come on lets get serious, you're dreaming. You really don't think that if it was so easy someone wouldn't do it? Explain to me exactly how "Big Business" benefits from high gas prices? Who do think owns "Big Business" and "Big Oil"? People like you and me in pension funds and mutual funds.


Who benefits?

How about retired Exxon/Mobil retired chairman Lee Raymond with his near $400 million dollar retirement gift?
 
Watch the program, and make your own decisions smart guy. I am certainly not going to argue with an intellect as powerful as the great omnipotent Oneflyer. 🙄

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374/

Here is another link:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

What's this mean Oneflyer?

Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the price of oil?

Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up to me and said, “Be careful.â€￾ In a very warning tone he said, “Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline.â€￾

Gee, you mean if a competitive, less expensive product enters the market the price will drop? Holy Sh!t who would have thought of that.

Sounds like another industry, the airline industry and the price of tickets? Oh no, wait the price of tickets dropped because Management, "Big Business", and the government are out to get airline mechanics, not because low cost carriers entered the market with tons of planes, reasonable ticket prices, along with the introduction of the internet which made it easy to compare prices.
Silly me.
 

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