presenting “new [CBA] proposals”

[chris perry]

Back to the original topic, Our union contract will be what best suits the International's needs.We have never had a Union to speak of as long as I've worked here. It has never really been intrested in anything but keeping the number of due's payers up.
It's been in the Internationals hands and the Rank and file have little to no voice.... Why do you think the International has hired a pricey law firm now? It sure not for the member's,it's about saving the cash cow numbers..

 

[Buck]

Back to the original topic, Our union contract will be what best suits the International's needs.We have never had a Union to speak of as long as I've worked here. It has never really been intrested in anything but keeping the number of due's payers up.
It's been in the Internationals hands and the Rank and file have little to no voice.... Why do you think the International has hired a pricey law firm now? It sure not for the member's,it's about saving the cash cow numbers..

We are on topic, we are discussing the potential new CBA based on the historical relation between the company and the TWU.

 

[Boomer]

I think we can see how the Sect. 1113 process will be determined by the TWU:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

LINK PROVIDED: TeAAm TWU

"...Over the last week we have received a number of inquiries regarding bankruptcy negotiations. The International Administrative Committee (IAC) in consultation with our legal and consultant team are meeting with your Local representatives today in connection with the following announcement regarding TWU negotiations: Given the extraordinary circumstances presented, as well as the fact that the negotiations will be conducted under Section 1113, the following negotiation structure will be implemented by TWU -- your collective bargaining representative -- before a bankruptcy code 1113(c) motion filing and after an 1113(c) motion filing to assure that you receive thorough and expert representation (for example, to avoid procedural missteps under Section 1113 which could risk implementation of unnecessary concessions on employees).

Pre-1113(c) MOTION FILING:
TWU will appoint a negotiating committee which will be assisted by and utilize the entire current negotiations teams for both the AA and AE systems; International staff will be assigned to assist, along with our economist, and our legal team.

Following this initial process, if the parties cannot reach an agreement, the Company will (according to the information provided TWU) petition the court to reject TWU CBAs.

Post-1113(c) MOTION FILING:
The TWU-appointed negotiating committee will be assisted by your International staff assigned, economist, and legal teams. In addition, both the AA and AE current negotiating teams will select one representative if applicable from the following to serve on an advisory negotiating committee to a maximum of thirteen members; one Fleet Service, one MCT, one Auto/Fac, one Line AMT, one Base AMT, one Stock Clerk, one Ground School Instructor, one Flight Dispatcher, and one Simulator Technician."...
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Comments:

The TWU International still owns each CBA covered by contract between themselves and AMR.

It now appears that we have been forced into Joint Negotiations with TWU represented contract groups at AA being placed on equal footing with TWU represented contract groups at AE; TWU M&R being placed on equal footing with Fleet Service and Dispatch.

Does anyone know if the roll-call will be utilized by the TWU International for the appointed negotiations committee if they vote to outsource Dispatch?

 

[Bogey]

You can't outsource dispatch.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

We are on topic, we are discussing the potential new CBA based on the historical relation between the company and the TWU.

Based on that, I'd almost expect to see AA pass proposals stamped "Final" in the first session and refuse to entertain any other notions.That gives them leeway to stand in front of a judge and claim "They tried to negotiate in good faith" but since the TWU refused to negotiate they have no choice but to seek rejection of all TWU contracts En Masse".

This is the jackpot they've been waiting for since 2003, they are going to give us the baby seal treatment and the TWU is going to wring their hands and tell us they "Fought like hell" and "Did their best",pocket their thirty pieces of silver and recommend we accept whatever steaming pile of dung they bring back.

 

[Hopeful]

We are on topic, we are discussing the potential new CBA based on the historical relation between the company and the TWU.

How's this for the historical relation between the company and the TWU?....................................................?

The TWU tells the company they will give them whatever they want and have ALL mechanics around the system on the line work for $22 an hour to save OH...


How's that grab ya?

 

[Tex-Mech]

The TWU International still owns each CBA covered by contract between themselves and AMR.

It now appears that we have been forced into Joint Negotiations with TWU represented contract groups at AA being placed on equal footing with TWU represented contract groups at AE; TWU M&R being placed on equal footing with Fleet Service and Dispatch.

Does anyone know if the roll-call will be utilized by the TWU International for the appointed negotiations committee if they vote to outsource Dispatch?

From what I've been told there isn't any real negotiations, just a couple of local presidents that will be the fall guys for what is done by gless in the backroom.

 

[Bob Owens]

Explain your math that having a 6% signing bonus and $2.55 per hour equals your belief that

The signing bonus was only for the bases and the line premium was to be increased $2, not $2.55, its already .55.

 

[Buck]

How's this for the historical relation between the company and the TWU?....................................................?

The TWU tells the company they will give them whatever they want and have ALL mechanics around the system on the line work for $22 an hour to save OH...


How's that grab ya?

I was a supporter of the Line Premium and GEO Pay. Then comes Hopeful. He talked me out of that position.

How's that grab me, around the ankles , but just like you. I hope you have some seniority. Would it hurt you to post your seniority year, since you are a fan of dividing everyone, 5/29/84 if you are curious. Are you really so greedy? Why don't you apply and test for a AMFA represented carrier, then you wouldn't have to worry about your low pay and have OH as an enemy.

 

[Bob Owens]

I Bob, I have one question for you: Do you believe that AA planned this BK from back in 2003? My honest opinion, as you may have read here, is that AA planned to get the 2003 consessions to avoid BK then, thinking or knowing they would in fact revisit it at a later date b/c they allowed the pensions to remain.

Yes, I think they always considered the option. In the meantime they already got more without going BK than our peers did in BK. Sure we still have our Retiree Medical and DB Pension but we more than paid for it with other concessions. AA also has the advantage of building up those liabilities even more while their competitors were laying out more for DC plans than AA had to for the pensions, that we were paying for with other concessions.

And they would have a better canvas to compare with now that all the other majors are out of BK. Out of the 6 majors, AA will come out of BK the lowest cost legacy out there.

As far as maintenance they probably already are. Our average hourly rate is the lowest. Once they start hiring off the street it will drop even more.Some think that AA will try and use BK to get rid of OH, sure I think they will threaten to in order to get other concessions but I've asked the question repeatedly and never got an answer. Does it cost us more to do it in house than if we outsourced? Our OSMs start at $9/hr, our mechanics start at $14.74 plus licenses. The base starting rate is lower in 2011 than it was in 1983, OSM rates are less than Junior Mechanics pay was nearly 30 years ago and the progression is 10 years to the top, or five times longer. Right now there is lots of OT, so much that AA had to outsource 757s to Timco. Every year around 500 mechanics leave the company, that rate will likely increase over the next ten years as those of us hired in the 80s start to leave. So AA could drastically cut costs by hiring again. Instead of paying guys $49/hr on ot they would have new hires at $20/hr and OSMs at less than $10/hr, thats even less than what TIMCO pays their guys. Over the last few years they have tried to hold off on hiring, preferring to pay OT, then they brought everyone back and pushed all this work into the 2010 and 2011 schedule to drive up costs in preparation for the BK filing, recalls would not have the same effect as new hires because most came back at or near top pay.

What remains to be seen is how successful AA is at getting mechanics at $9/hr, even in Tulsa. I know they were having trouble in NY getting guys even with the Flex rate.

 

[Vortilon]

You can't outsource dispatch.

Really, that's not what I'm hearing. AA has been working with the FAA to develop a new computer program that would effectively make flight dispatch obsolete. In fact, in many countries they just have the pilots show up a little early, and get all the info they need for their flight - off the computer. After all, most pilots already have their dispatch license - as it was usually one of the classes offered at most flight schools. Hey man, lighten up. JK 😉

 

[Buster CRC]

Bob I don't think they had much luck on the 9 bucks an hour either, I heard they have been hiring A and P Mechanics off the street with no experience.

 

[Bob Owens]

I was a supporter of the Line Premium and GEO Pay. Then comes Hopeful. He talked me out of that position.

How's that grab me, around the ankles , but just like you. I hope you have some seniority. Would it hurt you to post your seniority year, since you are a fan of dividing everyone, 5/29/84 if you are curious. Are you really so greedy? Why don't you apply and test for a AMFA represented carrier, then you wouldn't have to worry about your low pay and have OH as an enemy.

Well Buck for every "Hopeful" thats here on the line there are probably two or three "well we aint gonna price ourselves out of a job and I aint gonna let you get more than we get so if things are so bad you should move here" guys there in the base. I've met a few of them over the years from your engine shop. I've also met many reasonable guys as well who understand its not realistic to pay everyone in every location exactly the same because it does not address the economic realities of the cost of living.

In the end, if we dont find common ground and stick together, we destroy each other.

Is that the way you want to go? Will you allow a guy who is under an alias, so in reality he could even be a member of management, change what you think is right?

 

[Hopeful]

I was a supporter of the Line Premium and GEO Pay. Then comes Hopeful. He talked me out of that position.

How's that grab me, around the ankles , but just like you. I hope you have some seniority. Would it hurt you to post your seniority year, since you are a fan of dividing everyone, 5/29/84 if you are curious. Are you really so greedy? Why don't you apply and test for a AMFA represented carrier, then you wouldn't have to worry about your low pay and have OH as an enemy.

Sorry if i hit a nerve....My seniority predates that wonderful 1983 industry CHANGING contract which spearheaded the decline of the mechanic profession.
Now, you need to go back and read many of my posts NEVER advocating OH be spun off. But also keep in mind I have been here long enough to know that TULSA has carried many a contract. I have been repeatedly told by fellow union brothers in TULSA, if you don't like it, "MOVE TO TULSA."
As of the last rejected TA, the focus was whether or not TULE would retain weekends off....

SHOW ME ONE POST WHERE I ADVOCATED SEPARATING OH FROM LINE....

You may have been in support of GEO pay, but your past local presidents using the power of the roll call vote were NEVER in favor of GEO pay.
You guys had all the clout because of your sheer numbers...What TULSA wanted, TULSA got...

Well guess what? NOW WE"RE ALL GOING TO GET IT AND GET IT GOOD...


Getting back to the post that upset you so much.....You can be damn sure that GLESS at the bequest of Little and Co....will offer ALL OUR HEADS to preserve union dues...

Are you going to deny that TULSA has never carried almost every contract?

And you are more than welcome to bring your 1984 seniority to NY.....Bring your family and be prepared to pay $12000 in property taxes, thousands in car insurance and thats for clunkers....Dont forget state tax.. But you can save thousands of dollars in taxes if you live inside NYC..But since the public school system is pretty bad, be prepared to spend thousands more for private school if your kids are still school age...Be prepared to wake up at 7 am twice a week so you can move your cars off the street so the street cleaners can come down the block....Dont forget home heating and electrical bills that are outragious..I can go on and on.....

Pleae, spare me the poor TULSA syndrome...The TWU and TULSA gave a rats ass for decades about the high cost of living areas like NY.....You guys had the sheer numbers to get whatever you want...

Now that OH's ass is on the line, you're looking for sympathy...

We are all screwed, not just you.

 

[Boomer]

Well Buck for every "Hopeful" thats here on the line there are probably two or three "well we aint gonna price ourselves out of a job and I aint gonna let you get more than we get so if things are so bad you should move here" guys there in the base. I've met a few of them over the years from your engine shop. I've also met many reasonable guys as well who understand its not realistic to pay everyone in every location exactly the same because it does not address the economic realities of the cost of living.

In the end, if we dont find common ground and stick together, we destroy each other.

Is that the way you want to go? Will you allow a guy who is under an alias, so in reality he could even be a member of management, change what you think is right?

Bob,

Just so we know, is the International going to impose Joint Negotiations even on those contract groups that have chosen to negotiate separately?

Regards,
Boomer