PSA and 900s

[PropPiedmont]

Well, this thread can be buried now. PSA MEC accepted all terms of the current CRJ-900 proposal without a vote from the pilot group.

Way to go PSA. So much for standing strong. Mesa isn't looking so bad anymore.

 

[Dash Trash]

Yep. You are correct.

 

[PoorPropDriver]

:angry: Get your facts straight. The proposal is going out for a vote. It won't pass. We have had a history of the MEC voting in major changes in our contract in the past and we now have member ratification. Relax and check your facts.

 

[PropPiedmont]

:angry: Get your facts straight. The proposal is going out for a vote. It won't pass. We have had a history of the MEC voting in major changes in our contract in the past and we now have member ratification. Relax and check your facts.

I find it interseting that your MEC first says no and we're not going to even entertain a vote, then a week later they say they want the deal and they're going to send it out for a vote.

That pretty much says it all. PSA was never going to let the CRJ-900s get away, regardless of the poor wages they would have to accept.

 

[Crzipilot]

Like it was said, prev. mec's voting in or not voting things in regardless of membership views. Hence, They attempted to negotiate with the company, company doesn't move, so they let the pilots decide what they will or will not take. so uhmmm...are you upset that there's now a possibility pdt won't get the jets. Not sure if it was here or elsewhere, 1 of ya said you'd never whipsaw. The other was licking his chops to fly it at 3 yr old rates.....whatever. It's in our house, not yours. When we are done with it, if it's voted down, You can play with it. Mind you, As US mgmt used AWA/B6 in the mainline negotiations, and got more than they were looking for. Mgmt has consistentaly used Mesa as our benchmark. Furthermore, Our rates will be higher than Mesa (if not currently) For our ratio'd pay, than their 900 pay. On top of that, they have now let the other FUD out of the bag on our website, stating that they don't know what will happen without the 900's but that 14 700's is not economical to operate, but 34 (700/900 combined) would be. You read that handwriting on the wall...

 

[chichi]

Like it was said, prev. mec's voting in or not voting things in regardless of membership views. Hence, They attempted to negotiate with the company, company doesn't move, so they let the pilots decide what they will or will not take. so uhmmm...are you upset that there's now a possibility pdt won't get the jets. Not sure if it was here or elsewhere, 1 of ya said you'd never whipsaw. The other was licking his chops to fly it at 3 yr old rates.....whatever. It's in our house, not yours. When we are done with it, if it's voted down, You can play with it. Mind you, As US mgmt used AWA/B6 in the mainline negotiations, and got more than they were looking for. Mgmt has consistentaly used Mesa as our benchmark. Furthermore, Our rates will be higher than Mesa (if not currently) For our ratio'd pay, than their 900 pay. On top of that, they have now let the other FUD out of the bag on our website, stating that they don't know what will happen without the 900's but that 14 700's is not economical to operate, but 34 (700/900 combined) would be. You read that handwriting on the wall...

the only thing PDT is licking...is our wounds. At least we still have a backbone. I hope PSA gets 900s....for the right PAY. They should get them....but not if it means selling their souls to the mesa devils. And I hope that PDT will get 400s. It only makes sense. We will not vote for any aircraft for substandard pay.....and I hope you dont either. Although we are seperate....we can still be strong..collectively, as long as we all are willing to protect and preserve the due pay we ALL have worked so hard for. The bickering between PSA and PDT is what THEY WANT.....lets be smarter. Let us work together, collectively, for the betterment of all WOs. Keep strong!

 

[Bluestreak]

At the risk of sounding redundant... the only reason this is being sent out to the pilots for a vote is because of PSA's history of MEC level votes. Our current crappy contract was originally voted down by the pilot group, but then was passed by an MEC level vote. After that, the J4J program was voted through on the MEC level without a pilot vote. Since then, our MEC has been either recalled or voted out of office. Now, every major decision is put out to a pilot vote. After the J4J mistake a resolution was passed that all major issues must be put out to a pilot vote. The only way the 900 issue can be voted on is if the MEC passes a TA. The agreement that was put forth by management has been passed as a TA, but given a negative endorsement. This way everyone gets a chance to say no.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Like it was said, prev. mec's voting in or not voting things in regardless of membership views. Hence, They attempted to negotiate with the company, company doesn't move, so they let the pilots decide what they will or will not take. so uhmmm...are you upset that there's now a possibility pdt won't get the jets. Not sure if it was here or elsewhere, 1 of ya said you'd never whipsaw. The other was licking his chops to fly it at 3 yr old rates.....whatever. It's in our house, not yours. When we are done with it, if it's voted down, You can play with it. Mind you, As US mgmt used AWA/B6 in the mainline negotiations, and got more than they were looking for. Mgmt has consistentaly used Mesa as our benchmark. Furthermore, Our rates will be higher than Mesa (if not currently) For our ratio'd pay, than their 900 pay. On top of that, they have now let the other FUD out of the bag on our website, stating that they don't know what will happen without the 900's but that 14 700's is not economical to operate, but 34 (700/900 combined) would be. You read that handwriting on the wall...

I just want the 90 seat aircraft to be flown at 90 seat pay, at least the E-190 pay rates at mainline. I have a fear that this won't happen.

And why, as a PDT pilot, am I so concerned?

Well, I'm still expecting a merger between PSA/PDT and I don't want to be possibly flying a 90 seat a/c in the future for substandard wages.

 

[chichi]

I just want the 90 seat aircraft to be flown at 90 seat pay, at least the E-190 pay rates at mainline. I have a fear that this won't happen.

And why, as a PDT pilot, am I so concerned?

Well, I'm still expecting a merger between PSA/PDT and I don't want to be possibly flying a 90 seat a/c in the future for substandard wages.

I agree with your reasoning...however, I dont see that merger transpiring.....one whole pilot group would be way more difficult for mgt. to bully around. My two cents.

 

[Crzipilot]

I don't see a merger happening either. I blieve DP in one of the crew videos, actually states the different and unique situation of having so many regionals operating for US now. He stated it can get confusing at times, but the advantage they have is they can play one against the other. Go figure.

As to the 900, I seriously doubt you'll see anyone operating the a/c for equal, or even close to the 190 wage rate. Just not going to happen. The only way for that to happen would for ALPA national to rally all the MEC's and set a standard rate for the a/c. In addition even if they did that, you have other contractors that are either non-union or teamsters. There's nothings stopping a new carrier to accept the price point management wants to operate these a/c at. TSA is already in our system, and their alter is flying the 700, they can put the 900 on it fairly easily (though that might be in vioation of delta scope, not sure what that is anymore)

Either way the soon to be current rate we'd be flying the 900's at are above Mesa. Somewhere in the lower middle compared to others. Work rules are better than mesa, middle compared to others. Appreciation is prob. equal to mesa.

Also the dream of the 900's or that size only being at mainline. Not going to happen. Would love for it to, so as I might get back there sooner. But that cats been out of the bag, and the cost savings they get at all other aspects of labor (f/a's,ground, mtx, dispatchers, instructors, office staff, etc etc) is to big of a number for them to put or justify that small of a fleet at mainline.

Perfect solution, grenade all the contractors and nipple suckers, bring everything into WO's and such, but then you still have a whipsaw. grenade the WO's too and then it would work. Never gonna happen.

 

[WSurf]

Well if PSA votes this in, PDT will be SOL when it comes to getting the correct Q400 pay if we get them!!! I can see management now, ok.. we will get you guys 25 Q400's.... But you have to fly them at 300 pay!!!
This is an important vote...... I hope you folks do the right thing and vote it down.... Good Luck!

 

[PropPiedmont]

I agree with your reasoning...however, I dont see that merger transpiring.....one whole pilot group would be way more difficult for mgt. to bully around. My two cents.

I don't think it could get any easier for management. Believe it or not a single carrier between PSA/PDT would not be detrimental to Airways. They still have seven other contract carriers to play against us. We'll see, but I still expect to see a merger at some point.

And, like WSurf says, please vote no. A yes vote will hurt both wholly owneds. This will set precedent for pay negotiaions and I don't want it to be, "fly bigger equipment at the same cost."

 

[Crzipilot]

PSA CAPT
BLENDED RATE BLENDED RATE BLENDED RATE BLENDED RATE BLENDED RATE BLENDED RATE
10/1/2006 1/1/2007 10/1/2007 1/1/2008 10/1/2008 1/1/2009
1 55.95 56.30 57.46 57.81 59.00 59.54
2 59.68 60.04 61.29 61.65 62.94 63.49
3 60.98 61.34 62.62 62.99 64.31 64.88
4 64.67 65.05 66.41 66.80 68.21 68.80
5 66.60 67.00 68.40 68.80 70.25 70.86
6 68.58 68.99 70.44 70.85 72.34 72.97
7 70.17 70.58 72.06 72.48 74.01 74.65
8 72.23 72.65 74.18 74.61 76.18 76.84
9 74.52 74.96 76.54 76.99 78.61 79.29
10 76.69 77.14 78.76 79.21 80.89 81.59
11 78.94 79.40 81.07 81.54 83.26 83.98
12 81.23 81.71 83.43 83.91 85.68 86.43
13 83.59 84.08 85.85 86.35 88.17 88.94
14 86.01 86.52 88.34 88.85 90.72 91.51
15 88.08 88.59 90.46 90.99 92.91 93.71
16 89.23 89.75 91.64 92.17 94.12 94.93
17 90.24 90.77 92.68 93.22 95.19 95.81


MESA-900 SkyWest-700/900 Republic- E170
Capt. F/O Capt. F/O Capt.
1 59 21 56 19.00 62 22
2 61 28 58 35.00 66 30
3 63 31 60 36.00 70 34
4 65 33 61 37.00 72 35
5 67 34 63 38.00 74
6 69 35 65 39.00 77
7 70 36 67 40.00 79
8 72 69 82
9 75 71 84
10 77 74 87
11 79 76 89
12 82 78 92
13 84 81 1 95
14 87 83 98
15 89 86 101
16 91 88 104
17 93 91 106


GOJets Comair-700 Air Wisconsin-200
Capt F/O Capt. F/O Capt F/O
1 57 23 57 20 56 24
2 58 25 58 32 58 35
3 60 34 60 34 60 36
4 62 35 62 35 62 37
5 64 64 36 64 38
6 66 66 37 66 39
7 68 68 38 68 41
8 70 70 70 42
9 72 72 72
10 74 74 74
11 76 77 76
12 78 79 78
13 80 82 81
14 82 84 83
15 84 87 85




JetBlue- E190 UsAirways-E190 Air Wisconson- 146
Capt. F/O Capt F/O Capt F/O
1 71 37 79 41 68 24
2 72 40 80 44 70 41
3 74 42 82 46 73 42
4 76 44 84 49 75 44
5 77 46 86 51 79 45
6 79 47 88 52 82 46
7 80 48 89 84 48
8 82 49 91 87 49
9 84 50 93 89 51
10 85 51 95 92 52
11 87 52 95
12 89 53 9

 

[700UW]

You know the bottom line is it is better to have the planes in-house then let Johnny O get any richer.

 

[PropPiedmont]

You know the bottom line is it is better to have the planes in-house then let Johnny O get any richer.

I think JO's time has come. Everything is very cyclic in this world and some tough times are in store for Johnny.