Looks like someone thinks this maybe a done deal. UsAirways code a phone, 17 July, states that a class of 8 captains will begin on Aug. 7th at PSA. Open to all fuloughs and MDA pilots recently put on to the APL list, whatever thats suppose to mean. Did not say what type of a/c but I guess we can figure that out.
PSA and 900s
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Crzipilot
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Once again, someone spouting off withouth knowing what the hell they are talking about.
The class that is running is for backfill positions. You see, there used to be over 100 j4j's on property. It's now down to 60 something. It's been a bone of contention, with figuring out exactly how many numbers are due to back fill and such. There has been a stready trickle of people leaving PSA, and this class was actually rumored to have been in March/May.....just been getting pushed back.
Oh and the type of a/c CRJ200/700. Thank you...
BoeingBoy
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Seeing as how US just asked the court to extend the deadline for keeping or rejecting the current CRJ orders (among other things) for the 7th or 8th time - to early September - it seems that anything to do with CRJ-900's is just a fishing expedition by the company for now.
Jim
Jim
They will keep pushing the date until 03/2007.
Testing the waters to see who the weak are AGAIN!
RowUnderDCA
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I don't understand this aircraft. Crj 900
It can't be economically operated on short hops, but it can't be made comfortable on mid to long range flights.
Where should this aircraft fly?
It can't be economically operated on short hops, but it can't be made comfortable on mid to long range flights.
Where should this aircraft fly?
Bluestreak
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Jim,
Thanks for chiming in on this one. I totally agree with you. I am trying to convince my fellow PSA pilots that going for this deal is a terrible idea. Do you have any fresh ideas for arguments I can make to convince the fence sitters to vote no?
BoeingBoy
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Not really - with the Pandora's box of all the affiliate express carriers already open, there'll probably be someone willing to fly these planes at the PSA CRJ-200 and/or -700 rate. So the company has the full advantage of whipsawing one group against another. The only advantage a WO pilot group has is that a profit isn't paid to an outside contractor, so in theory PSA could ask for more than the lowest outside bidder and still be cost competitive. How much more or what rate that would be, I don't know.
Jim
[Edit to add]
What's the current Mesa -900 rate? I assume they'd be about the lowest bidder, so that'd be a starting point to figure from.
[Edit to further add]
While it's easy to say you should draw a line in the sand, stand up for the profession, fall on your sword for everyone else, etc, I can't in good conscience do so. While I've voted to do just that - "No" on everything back to Wolf's "turbogrowth for concessions" - my group didn't. So it's not my, or anyone else in mainline ALPA's, place to tell another pilot group what to do. You'll have to collectively decide what's best for your group and live with the consequences - bad or good. I just hope you have fewer of those who care about nothing but saving their own skin and vote accordingly, then constantly blame others for the results, than we do.....
Jim
[Edit to add]
What's the current Mesa -900 rate? I assume they'd be about the lowest bidder, so that'd be a starting point to figure from.
[Edit to further add]
While it's easy to say you should draw a line in the sand, stand up for the profession, fall on your sword for everyone else, etc, I can't in good conscience do so. While I've voted to do just that - "No" on everything back to Wolf's "turbogrowth for concessions" - my group didn't. So it's not my, or anyone else in mainline ALPA's, place to tell another pilot group what to do. You'll have to collectively decide what's best for your group and live with the consequences - bad or good. I just hope you have fewer of those who care about nothing but saving their own skin and vote accordingly, then constantly blame others for the results, than we do.....
Crzipilot
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Boeing,
I posted some numbers previously, but didn't really come out. Net Net. by 10/07 we will be paid about 1-3.00/hr more than Mesa. At this point we are already 2-4/hr more for the 700 than a handful of other carriers.
Which they are talking 1st qtr. for a/c deliveries to start.
I don't like this deal and think it sucks. But then on the other hand, i see the reality of the pandoras box, and the reality of what glass et. al. are capable of. Which way to go, who knows. Bottom line, I'd rather see them at a WO than a contractor. The company hasn't blinked on negotiations, which would tell me they have a plan b....but then who knows. We'll find out.
I posted some numbers previously, but didn't really come out. Net Net. by 10/07 we will be paid about 1-3.00/hr more than Mesa. At this point we are already 2-4/hr more for the 700 than a handful of other carriers.
Which they are talking 1st qtr. for a/c deliveries to start.
I don't like this deal and think it sucks. But then on the other hand, i see the reality of the pandoras box, and the reality of what glass et. al. are capable of. Which way to go, who knows. Bottom line, I'd rather see them at a WO than a contractor. The company hasn't blinked on negotiations, which would tell me they have a plan b....but then who knows. We'll find out.
BoeingBoy
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Well, if the only variable is pilot pay some ballpark figures would say that PSA could possibly be as much as 1/2 - 3/4 cents CASM higher than Mesa and come out about equal from a "cost to the company" standpoint. That would be somewhere around 7-10,000 per year per crew in higher pay (divided however you want).
The problem is that pilot pay is probably not the only variable. There's not just the productivity of the pilot contracts but all the other employee's pay/benefits comparisons.
Then there's the "headcount" - I gather that Mesa provides little/no ground handling for USX operations. If PSA provides more ground handling, it artificially makes PSA's costs look higher relative to Mesa's. That's just one example of non-pay rate issues that I have no idea how to quantify.
In short (???), the company can probably figure it all out to the 1/100th of a cent CASM but I don't know if anyone else has the info to do so. That let's the company spin it any way they want for negotiating leverage.
Jim
The problem is that pilot pay is probably not the only variable. There's not just the productivity of the pilot contracts but all the other employee's pay/benefits comparisons.
Then there's the "headcount" - I gather that Mesa provides little/no ground handling for USX operations. If PSA provides more ground handling, it artificially makes PSA's costs look higher relative to Mesa's. That's just one example of non-pay rate issues that I have no idea how to quantify.
In short (???), the company can probably figure it all out to the 1/100th of a cent CASM but I don't know if anyone else has the info to do so. That let's the company spin it any way they want for negotiating leverage.
Jim
Hey Bluestreak,
Wait untill the company reports earnings for the quarter, which I hear is on the 27th(?), and there shouldn't be an argument. So far everyone is posting big (relatively speaking)profits. I would hope that a big fat profit would get folks down off the fence. The pilots have funded the biggest portion of savings for this company (US Airways Group)and its about time we started getting a little back. I don't expect the moon, but no pay raise and no further adjusting of the ratio of large to small RJ's is ridiculous.
Wait untill the company reports earnings for the quarter, which I hear is on the 27th(?), and there shouldn't be an argument. So far everyone is posting big (relatively speaking)profits. I would hope that a big fat profit would get folks down off the fence. The pilots have funded the biggest portion of savings for this company (US Airways Group)and its about time we started getting a little back. I don't expect the moon, but no pay raise and no further adjusting of the ratio of large to small RJ's is ridiculous.
