Question Bob Owens

[Overspeed]

""

Well look at that, what am I EFHutton or something?

People, this is a "manufactured crisis". Meant to scare those who are easily scared.

So they filed a voluntary reorganization while they are sitting on $4 billion, let's see how extensively they plan on reorganizing. When they wipe out the frequent flyer miles, cancel their massive aircraft orders, see their revenue slip by a few billion and reissue new stock you may want to get a little worried. So far I haven't heard much. A 3 to 4% fleet reduction, employee attrition runs around 5%, so they won't have to hire as many next year. This ain't 2003 or 2005. There aren't thousands of unemployed airline workers out there and the airlines don't have to give seats away to fill airplanes either. With load factors as they are, and economic indicators, (black Friday sales, the stock market) doesn't look like the industry is headed towards a slump either.

Don't be scared, be mad.

"manufactured crisis" You sound like the other famous Bob, Baghdad Bob.

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"

"My feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all"

"Our initial assessment is that they will all die"

"I blame Al-Jazeera - they are marketing for the Americans!"

"God will roast their stomachs in hell at the hands of Iraqis."

'We have destroyed 2 tanks, fighter planes, 2 helicopters and their shovels - We have driven them back."

"Surrender or be burned in their tanks."

"No I am not scared and neither should you be!"

"We have them surrounded in their tanks"

Britain "is not worth an old shoe."

Of U.S. troops: "They are most welcome. We will butcher them."

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

"Washington has thrown their soldiers on the fire"

"These cowards have no morals. They have no shame about lying"

"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."

 

[TWU informer]

Well look at that, what am I EFHutton or something?

People, this is a "manufactured crisis". Meant to scare those who are easily scared.

So they filed a voluntary reorganization while they are sitting on $4 billion, let's see how extensively they plan on reorganizing. When they wipe out the frequent flyer miles, cancel their massive aircraft orders, see their revenue slip by a few billion and reissue new stock you may want to get a little worried. So far I haven't heard much. A 3 to 4% fleet reduction, employee attrition runs around 5%, so they won't have to hire as many next year. This ain't 2003 or 2005. There aren't thousands of unemployed airline workers out there and the airlines don't have to give seats away to fill airplanes either. With load factors as they are, and economic indicators, (black Friday sales, the stock market) doesn't look like the industry is headed towards a slump either.

Don't be scared, be mad.

Management has been quoted as saying this is a "strategic move", not a crisis.

The strategy is to either get labor concessions on a volunteer basis or have the judge impose them.

Already the A Plan Pilot Lump Sum option is no longer available, and I hear the TWU leveling plan is already nixed also.
Just the start.

If not, when do you think I will be recovering the $16,000.00 plus I have lost since the NO VOTE on the T/A?

I am not scared, but they are in control not you, TWU, or the Pilots.
What's next Bob? Start a fight with AA and watch them cut us to the bone and then we scorch earth them and once we are like Eastern stand outside and scream and yell at management with picket signs that we showed them?

I guess maybe if it doesn't effect you then you are good with it, but there are others already being negatively effected right now!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Maybe you are correct that AA would have came back for another bite and Bk anyway. We will never know now.

But I do know that I would have had $16,000 plus more in my pocket and they now are going to get what they want anyway.

Any ideas on how I get the lost $16K lost back? Think about it a minute before you respond with emotion, because now we are dealing with a factual filing that many chest thumpers like you said was a false threat. Well guess what? No Threat!

Those that keep making the same mistakes yet expecting different results are not what I like to follow.

You want me to detail for you what could have been done with $16,000.00 ?

Voting NO was a mistake, and now it has been proven.
There is no justification that can be made now.

Dave, I never said it was a faulse threat. I said the first time was a faulse threat. We all saw management throwing money away to get to the point where they could file. I just did not know when it would happen. You talk about making the same mistake. Voting yes in 2003 was a mistake. That was proven. I did not want to make the same mistake so I voted no on the TA. I don't have a clue how you can get $16K that you never had back. I don't know how I can get the vacation, sick benefits, holidays or anything else we used to have back without taking a management job. At this point in my sad choice of career I am concerned about retirement. It's bad enough that I must wait till I'm almost 68 for social security and medicare but the idiots in Washington are trying to take those away while the scumbags in HDQ are trying to steal our retirement benefits. The TA would have made it next to impossible for me to ever retire. The beating we take in BK will now make it impossible so I am stuck here for the rest of my life. The only way for me to avoid that was to vote no and hope something else happened. I'm sorry if that ruined your plan, but I was not the only one to vote no. Now we must hope that the maintenance base stays with the airline and is not spun off. If it is I see the same thing happening as in MCI. They will take more and more work away until the whole place dies. That said, the only thing I can do is offer you a cup of coffee if you want to come and vent some morning. But I will continue to support Bob Owens. He is the only one connected to the TWU who has put out any information. I am sure the TWU international would love to have him voted out of office so they could find another stooge like the yesmen that have led our own local that they can control. Say what you want but the man has the sack to disagree with the international on this board knowing that they will try to destroy him. You need to realize he could have sold us out like others have in order to get an international job with a 6 figure salary. He didn't and I admire that. We gambled and lost just like we were afraid to gamble last time (2003) and lost. But consider this.......... The BOD sat their with their thumbs up their butts for 8 years while Arpey wasted all the money they saved by screwing us and then all of a sudden they decide we must file BK and Arpey must go. Sounds like it was a plan from day one. There ought to be laws against this kind of corporate terrorism but alas, these guys learned all they know from Ican and Lorenzo. That being said (many times on this board) I will not waste any more space. You know where to find me. Come and see me.

 

[Duke787]

Well look at that, what am I EFHutton or something?

People, this is a "manufactured crisis". Meant to scare those who are easily scared.

So they filed a voluntary reorganization while they are sitting on $4 billion, let's see how extensively they plan on reorganizing. When they wipe out the frequent flyer miles, cancel their massive aircraft orders, see their revenue slip by a few billion and reissue new stock you may want to get a little worried. So far I haven't heard much. A 3 to 4% fleet reduction, employee attrition runs around 5%, so they won't have to hire as many next year. This ain't 2003 or 2005. There aren't thousands of unemployed airline workers out there and the airlines don't have to give seats away to fill airplanes either. With load factors as they are, and economic indicators, (black Friday sales, the stock market) doesn't look like the industry is headed towards a slump either.

Don't be scared, be mad.

Are you saying there will not be layoffs? Just to give you a little wiggle room, are you saying there won't be layoffs in the hundreds for the mechanics?

Do you still say OH will not be spun off because it's cheaper for AA to do it in house?

 

[Duke787]

And to top it off, they think we on the line are shaking in our boots because they might bump to the line stations....To the I say "Good Luck moving the families to the highest cost of living areas in country.

I don't think these TUL guys really understand how much seniority is at the class 2 stations, which would be the easiest to shut down. Who thinks they will be going to NY or SFO my guess a lot of them will head for DFW some place cheap to live. JFK/LGA, BOS, DCA, LAX, MIA, ORD, and SFO are the jr bases in order I believe.

We shouldn't pile on this is going to be a tough year for all of us, but especially for the family men that will either have to leave AA or uproot their family,(commuting will be out of the question, as capacity gets cut)

 

[Buck]

I don't think these TUL guys really understand how much seniority is at the class 2 stations, which would be the easiest to shut down. Who thinks they will be going to NY or SFO my guess a lot of them will head for DFW some place cheap to live. JFK/LGA, BOS, DCA, LAX, MIA, ORD, and SFO are the jr bases in order I believe.

We shouldn't pile on this is going to be a tough year for all of us, but especially for the family men that will either have to leave AA or uproot their family,(commuting will be out of the question, as capacity gets cut)

Ok, I understand. My seniority in 1984 and I am around #400 in the system and work at Tulsa. There are many ahead of me. So if there are layoffs, and the Class 2 station mechanics bump Tulsa, are these former line mechanics willing to accept the compensation that the line mechanics on these boards are proposing?

 

[FWAAA]

Well look at that, what am I EFHutton or something?

People, this is a "manufactured crisis". Meant to scare those who are easily scared.

So they filed a voluntary reorganization while they are sitting on $4 billion, let's see how extensively they plan on reorganizing. When they wipe out the frequent flyer miles, cancel their massive aircraft orders, see their revenue slip by a few billion and reissue new stock you may want to get a little worried. So far I haven't heard much. A 3 to 4% fleet reduction, employee attrition runs around 5%, so they won't have to hire as many next year. This ain't 2003 or 2005. There aren't thousands of unemployed airline workers out there and the airlines don't have to give seats away to fill airplanes either. With load factors as they are, and economic indicators, (black Friday sales, the stock market) doesn't look like the industry is headed towards a slump either.

Don't be scared, be mad.

Wow. Just Wow.

 

[paul1]

Wow. Just Wow.

Really!!! What did you expect

 

[eolesen]

Wow. Just Wow.

Yup. Someone is in serious denial.

 

[Duke787]

Ok, I understand. My seniority in 1984 and I am around #400 in the system and work at Tulsa. There are many ahead of me. So if there are layoffs, and the Class 2 station mechanics bump Tulsa, are these former line mechanics willing to accept the compensation that the line mechanics on these boards are proposong?

I said that they would most likely bump into DFW a line station,TUL mechs would be competing against class 2 station mechs who are SR, as I believe TUL won't be in the AA system any longer (sorry to say, I just wanted a separate contract from OH, not losing OH) you might be #400 but there are a LOT of JR guys behind you at TUL, and there are a LOT of SR guys in the line stations.

Hopefully for OH sake the union and AA come up with separate contracts to maintain OH in house. I can't see OH's 1980's work rules lasting forever, there is too much competition globally.

 

[Duke787]

Wow. Just Wow.

I know, I thought I was the only one that thought that..... 😱

 

[High Speed Steel]

I know, I thought I was the only one that thought that..... 😱

Oh no, Your not alone....I was like WTF did he just say? Perhaps we should get Tom Hanks to narrate an altered script from the movie Apollo 13.

"Kennedy we have a problem"

 

[FWAAA]

At December 31, 1999, the AA mainline fleet numbered 699 planes (started the year at 649), and AA had 8,893 mechanics on the domestic payroll and another 174 on the international payroll for a total of 9,067. Today, the active fleet is smaller (and probably about to get even smaller). How many mechanics would AA need to staff just the Class 1 and Class 2 stations (not counting TULE or AFW)?

On that date, AA also had 10,150 pilots and just under 22,700 FAs for that fleet. Both workgroups are substantially smaller today (as one would expect, given today's fleet size).

 

[Slopoke]

I said that they would most likely bump into DFW a line station,TUL mechs would be competing against class 2 station mechs who are SR, as I believe TUL won't be in the AA system any longer (sorry to say, I just wanted a separate contract from OH, not losing OH) you might be #400 but there are a LOT of JR guys behind you at TUL, and there are a LOT of SR guys in the line stations.

If it comes to class II stations being closed, the first option will be filling the vacancies, if there are any. After that people that can be subject to bumping will be by lowest senority without system protection.

 

[Overspeed]

At December 31, 1999, the AA mainline fleet numbered 699 planes (started the year at 649), and AA had 8,893 mechanics on the domestic payroll and another 174 on the international payroll for a total of 9,067. Today, the active fleet is smaller (and probably about to get even smaller). How many mechanics would AA need to staff just the Class 1 and Class 2 stations (not counting TULE or AFW)?

On that date, AA also had 10,150 pilots and just under 22,700 FAs for that fleet. Both workgroups are substantially smaller today (as one would expect, given today's fleet size).

What about fleet types? In 1999 we had the DC10-10 and -30, MD11, MD80, MD87 (Reno), MD90 (Reno), A300, 727, 737, 757, 767-200 and -300, F100, and 777. Now we have just 5 types. You would think AA should be easier to run without all that complexity. What the #### happened to AA?