Question For You Mainline Pilots
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BoeingBoy
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Actually, if you're talking about cockpit jumpseat the answer is no - the jumpseat rider isn't included in the BOW. The jumpseat rider's weight is added just like any other passenger, except that obviously the jumpseat location is used for CG purposes (unless the J/S rider sits in the back then is accounted for as any other passenger.
I suspect you're asking because of the times the flight is near/at maxium T/O weight. That is accounted for by giving the Captain the authority to offset the J/S rider's weight thru extra taxi fuel burn. It's in our Letter of Agreement #1:
"Finally, the captain has the discretion to utilize taxi fuel burn-off to offset the additional weight of the jumpseat occupant when a maximum gross weight take off or landing problem is present. The discretion to utilize taxi burn-off in this manner is subject to prior advisement to Operations."
Jim
I suspect you're asking because of the times the flight is near/at maxium T/O weight. That is accounted for by giving the Captain the authority to offset the J/S rider's weight thru extra taxi fuel burn. It's in our Letter of Agreement #1:
"Finally, the captain has the discretion to utilize taxi fuel burn-off to offset the additional weight of the jumpseat occupant when a maximum gross weight take off or landing problem is present. The discretion to utilize taxi burn-off in this manner is subject to prior advisement to Operations."
Jim
BoeingBoy
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No offense meant, autofixer, and I hope none taken.
I've just seen this question a few times and it seems to revolve around some of the express carriers that can't offset J/S rider weight for weight/balance purposes so there are times that a J/S rider gets bumped off (or doesn't even get on to start with).
That "Captain's authority" is the only thing that separates mainline from those carriers when it comes to cockpit J/S and weight/balance.
Jim
I've just seen this question a few times and it seems to revolve around some of the express carriers that can't offset J/S rider weight for weight/balance purposes so there are times that a J/S rider gets bumped off (or doesn't even get on to start with).
That "Captain's authority" is the only thing that separates mainline from those carriers when it comes to cockpit J/S and weight/balance.
Jim
ItsJustAJob
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BoeingBoy,
The ability to use taxi fuel to offset the weight of a jumpseater is only allowed for an S1 jumpseater, correct? Or is it S1-S3? I recall a memo from several years ago clarifying that offline jumpseaters are not included. I don't recall if it was for all of the US Airways "family" or just mainline.
The ability to use taxi fuel to offset the weight of a jumpseater is only allowed for an S1 jumpseater, correct? Or is it S1-S3? I recall a memo from several years ago clarifying that offline jumpseaters are not included. I don't recall if it was for all of the US Airways "family" or just mainline.
And believe me this is on the table right now. Glass doesn’t miss a thing.
What is a S1-S3 do you mean A1-A6 or P1-P4 .S1 thur S7 is non-rev priorities
Crzipilot
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Actually some of us at the express carriers exercise that captain's authority quite often 🙂 Being furloughed and a commuter I understand how precious that flight home is.
Though I know the e145's were major problems when needing alternates.... the crj200 is a little better, the 700 much. Don't know about the 900.....
Though I know the e145's were major problems when needing alternates.... the crj200 is a little better, the 700 much. Don't know about the 900.....
So captains authority exist in your contract to allow jumpseats to exceed ZFW/MTW due to taxi burn? I ask this question because I have never seen it exercise before. Mainline all the time
BoeingBoy
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Gee whiz, now you're getting technical .....
I don't remember that, but that coulc certainly be my memory. I just know that if there's a J/S rider they don't get left behind if they can ride in the cockpit (CASS and all that).
(And don't tell anyone, but if the weight limit is due to landing weight limit I've got till touchdown to offset the J/S weight)
Jim
nycbusdriver
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A-1's are definitely within the scope of the captain's authority to burn taxi fuel to accomodate a J/S rider.
"And now here's a look at the grand canyon for you folks on the left side of the plane."
L
luvn737s
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Wait a second. Say you are at max take-off weight which is limited by landing weight. Say all fuel is required due to wx, etc. And let's say you exceed your planned ZFW. Heavy weight, short flight, lousy weather.
Are you saying that you can revise your release to show 200lbs (or so) less taxi fuel? How does taking a jumpseater reduce the amount of fuel you require? Isn't that why they call it MIN FUEL? And if they show up at the last minute what do you do? Just lie about the fuel on board? Sounds like a good way to get some unwanted registered mail.
If the numbers work, great. If they don't, oh well. But fudging ain't worth it.
Are you saying that you can revise your release to show 200lbs (or so) less taxi fuel? How does taking a jumpseater reduce the amount of fuel you require? Isn't that why they call it MIN FUEL? And if they show up at the last minute what do you do? Just lie about the fuel on board? Sounds like a good way to get some unwanted registered mail.
If the numbers work, great. If they don't, oh well. But fudging ain't worth it.
wings396
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No, the Taxi Fuel is figured at a set amount of 500 if I remember correctly for a 737. Depending on how long you sit in line awaiting T/O, you can burn a few hundred pounds more, which will allow you that extra weight to carry a J/S rider. Your enroute fuel burn can also exceed what the release planed for depending on several things.
Crzipilot
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Well there isn't anything in our contract that spells it out. BUT being the captain of the airplane, you have the authority to do what you believe is right. By the operation of the aircraft, and for the operation of US itself. The little rat jets can get tricky, weight wise, when your full. I haven't had a flight yet which bumps on max taxi or MTOW. Majority of the time your fighting MLW. Even with MLW, the way they plan our fuel, we have a set amount depending on time of day and such for taxi and tanker. (usually very little but sometimes enough to get another body on board) The bottom line is if I have non-revs or a J/S trying to get somewhere, and I can fit them all in by releasing brakes with min t/o fuel, I will. Most of the burns are usually conservative, at least on my flights they have been. In addition, when the weather comes down etc, alot of times they will throw a good amount of holding fuel, or a further alternate than needed. In that case, and if I'm weight limited, trying to squeeze all the rev. and non-rev on, I'll talk with dispatch about getting a different alt, or decreasing holding fuel, if appropriate and such. Either way I'm getting everyone on. There is an exception though, and that's generally when OAJ has alot of military processing in our out and we have a bunch of military duffels. In this case, only once, I wouldnt' have been able to take the j/s. BUT, at the same time, due to the volume of the bags, we bulked out and had to leave some behind.
So long story short, no I don't have contractural authority to dump revenue for a j/s, but I have my own ways of making it work and still having everything legal. Takes a little more work and figuring, but I feel it's one of the few perks we have left, it's worth it.
