Ramp Agents Only (PLEASE!)

[diogenes]

Agents involuntarily displaced to p/t accrued credit at the f/t rate.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Agents involuntarily displaced to p/t accrued credit at the f/t rate.

What about those that were hired p/t after 1996? They get day for day seniority, while those that were hired p/t between 1980 and 1996 only gained half a days seniority. Between 80 & 96 there were stations where p/timers were scheduled anywhere from 2 hours a day to 6.5 hours a day. Those that were scheduled 6.5 got seniority credit for 4 hours a day when they went f/t. Those scheduled 2 hours a day got seniority credit for 4 hours a day when they went f/t. Was that fair to those that put in 6.5 hours a day? I think not. That is one of the many reasons to go by strict DOH for everything. That is the only way the playing field can be equal for all. No one will be able to dispute who was hired first.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

I was hired in 1979, and always went by classification date. I was former PI, and I know that US did a bit of adjusting after the merger. They also did something different with the way dates were adjusted later on, but I never paid any attention to it, as it didn't affect me. I recall that people who took a temporary upgrade to F/T got credit for that time as well. Unfortunatly I don't stand anywhere but in the cold on this any longer, as I am on furlough. :unsure:
At this point, I would just be happy to be recalled at the rate of pay that I left with. Once you have been out of work for a while, you realize that going back and forth with some of these issues is senseless. At my current place of employment, I am 2nd from the bottom of the crap heap, and will be there for a long time by the way it looks.... 🙁

US did a lot of adjusting after the mergers, but they didn't adjust everyone. That is what has caused so much animosity amongst the ramp agents. To many different ways of calculating seniority. DOH spells it out plain and simple. Does it bother you that you are furloughed with 26 years seniority, while there are ramp agents still working with less time than that, that have never beenfurloughed? It pains me to no end that I was furloughed, while ramp agents in my city with less seniority than me got to keep their jobs. With DOH that would never have happened. It should be last hired, first fired! Not the other way around.

 

[diogenes]

You asked for reasons with the opinions, so what is the basis for your claim DOH is the only fair way, other than that is your opinion?

For instance, address the mathematical fact p/t are scheduled fewer hours annually than f/t, and demonstrate how that amounts to equal seniority. You have demonstrated p/t are scheduled various hours, but have not addressed they are always less than full-time.

Is there something the matter with earning what you get, instead of expecting a windfall at someone else's expense?

And with all due respect, an adjustment that reflects the dichotomy of pt/ft hours accrued is nearly as simple as DOH, with a few basic math skills.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

You asked for reasons with the opinions, so what is the basis for your claim DOH is the only fair way, other than that is your opinion?

Since 1996 all p/timers gain day for day seniority. It doesn't matter how many hours a day they work. Those p/timers hired before 1996 got a half a day seniority, it didn't matter how many hours they worked per day. At HP, f/timers & p/timers get day for day seniority regardless of how many hours they are scheduled. They have p/timers with 18 years. Should a f/timer with 5 years be ahead of that 18 year p/timer? We have the same scenario on the US side, many times over. Junior f/timers that continued working while senior p/timers were furloughed. Is that fair? What would you recommend be done to get a seniority system that is fair to everyone? Remember, we have 3 different seniority systems that we go by right now. When we become as one with HP, we will have 4 different systems. What can be done to remedy that, other than DOH! I welcome your suggestions.

 

[wings396]

Yes it does bother me very much that I have been furloughed, but everyone else in my station was also. Victims of Outsourcing, sorry to say. Yes, I did have the option of going to another station, but with the company in BK, I din't know how long they would hang on. It would have sucked to pick up and move, only to lose my job afterwards anyway. This is another prime reason that the 60 day furlough language should be done away with. I'm sure there are many others that would have made different choices had they know about the upcoming merger.

 

[D M G]

Then why is it that if you were hired before 1980 you go by hire date? If you were hired between 1980 and 1996 you go by classification date? And if you were hired after 1996 you once again go by hire date, whether you are parttime or fulltime? And HP goes by hire date no matter when they were hired, or if they are fulltime or parttime? There has to be some equal way to balance the workforce. classification doesn't do it. Hire Dtae puts evryone on an even playing field. You get in where you fit in.

After 1980 part timers were only given credit for half time because that's all they earned and it was the right way to calculate it. In 1996 Fleet wasn't under a CBA and the company was free to do what they wanted with seniority dates. It was easier to give the new hires one date instead of keeping track of classification time, so that's what the company did. It would have never happened that way had we been represented.

How does DOH put everyone on a level playing field? It doesn't, but it apparently would benefit you and that's why you continually bring this subject up. Understand this, Fleet will never go to DOH as long as the people running the show continue to do so.

Those that were scheduled 6.5 got seniority credit for 4 hours a day when they went f/t. Those scheduled 2 hours a day got seniority credit for 4 hours a day when they went f/t. Was that fair to those that put in 6.5 hours a day? I think not.

If you don't think the above is fair how can you possibly think that it's fair for the pt agent working the 2 hour shift accrue the same seniority as a full timer working an 8 hour shift. You should accrue what you're scheduled for, and in the case of different times for PT then the average length of the shifts should be used. Seniority within the PT group will determine who makes out by working the shorter shifts and getting averaged up..

It pains me to no end that I was furloughed, while ramp agents in my city with less seniority than me got to keep their jobs.

Did you know and understand how seniority worked when you were hired and while you worked at U?

 

[D M G]

When we become as one with HP, we will have 4 different systems. What can be done to remedy that, other than DOH! I welcome your suggestions.

Simple. Three agents were all hired on 1-1-06.

As of 10-2-06:

FSA 1 - Took full time immediately....class date 1-1-06

FSA 2 - Went full time 5-18-06......class date 3-9-06

FSA 3 - Stayed PT......class date 5-17-06

I may be off a day or two for FSAs 2&3 because it's late, but it's not rocket science integrating the groups.

I am not a ramp agent but I would like to know your thoughts on the P/Timers that were forced to P/T from F/T?

I feel they should accrue FT seniority until they are upgraded back to FT. If they refuse the callback then they start accruing at the PT rate. Also, they should accrue FT seniority if they refuse a FT opening in another city.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Simple. Three agents were all hired on 1-1-06.

As of 10-2-06:

FSA 1 - Took full time immediately....class date 1-1-06

FSA 2 - Went full time 5-18-06......class date 3-9-06

FSA 3 - Stayed PT......class date 5-17-06

For FSA #3, if they were hired on 1-1-06, how do they suddenly get a new date of 5-17-06?

 

[Ramp Rogue]

In 1996 Fleet wasn't under a CBA and the company was free to do what they wanted with seniority dates. It was easier to give the new hires one date instead of keeping track of classification time, so that's what the company did.

The only ones that were under a CBA were PIT, PHL, SYR, BUF, and I think DAY. The rest of the system wasn't, so we should not have been subjected to classification seniority like those 5 cities were.

Once we finally merge ramp work foces with HP, and they come over with their DOH seniority, how do you feel they should be integrated into our workforce? In case you don't know it, they have 18 year p/timers that have never been f/t.

 

[D M G]

For FSA #3, if they were hired on 1-1-06, how do they suddenly get a new date of 5-17-06?

FSA #3 stayed part time and is only accruing seniority at 4 hours per day. From his hire date of 1-1-06 to the current date I used, 10-2-06, his time is cut in half putting his class date at the midway point between the two dates.

It's very simple, and the only fair way to do it.

Edit: The FSA #3 class date would remain 1-1-06 within the p/t group. The date of 5-17-06 would become his new class date if he went full time on 10-2-06.

 

[D M G]

The only ones that were under a CBA were PIT, PHL, SYR, BUF, and I think DAY. The rest of the system wasn't, so we should not have been subjected to classification seniority like those 5 cities were.

Once we finally merge ramp work foces with HP, and they come over with their DOH seniority, how do you feel they should be integrated into our workforce? In case you don't know it, they have 18 year p/timers that have never been f/t.

Actually the only cities covered under the CBA were PHL, PIT, BOS, and BUF. The company continued to use class date even after de-certification in 1991. That's right, the company. They could have used DOH for everyone but they didn't. Also, it would have been easier for the company to go to DOH rather than figuring out the 4000 PI rampers class dates in 1989, but they didn't. The company went with class date because it's the fairest way to do it.

Honestly I don't care how many years anyone has been p/t in any city or with any company, unless they were involuntarily downgraded. They chose to stay with a company for 18 years as a part timer, and that's the service credit they will receive once they are integrated by classification date with Usair's workforce. 18 years part time will get you a class date of 1997, and deservedly so.

 

[IAM1776PHL]

Actually the only cities covered under the CBA were PHL, PIT, BOS, and BUF. The company continued to use class date even after de-certification in 1991. That's right, the company. They could have used DOH for everyone but they didn't. Also, it would have been easier for the company to go to DOH rather than figuring out the 4000 PI rampers class dates in 1989, but they didn't. The company went with class date because it's the fairest way to do it.

Honestly I don't care how many years anyone has been p/t in any city or with any company, unless they were involuntarily downgraded. They chose to stay with a company for 18 years as a part timer, and that's the service credit they will receive once they are integrated by classification date with Usair's workforce. 18 years part time will get you a class date of 1997, and deservedly so.

Were the Ramp agents DOH or class date when they were represented by he teamsters?

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Honestly I don't care how many years anyone has been p/t in any city or with any company, unless they were involuntarily downgraded. They chose to stay with a company for 18 years as a part timer, and that's the service credit they will receive once they are integrated by classification date with Usair's workforce. 18 years part time will get you a class date of 1997, and deservedly so.

This is where the problem begins. Only some of the workforce goes by classification date. If you were hired p/t in 1996 and after you go by hire date. If you are upgraded to f/t you still go by that same hire date for everything. Your time isn't cut in half, you don't get any new class date. Your hire date is what you go by, your hire date is all you go by. How is that fair to all of the people that had their time cut in half in the 80's? How do you think the HP folks are going to feel, (when going by your way of thinking), you tell them they don't have 18 years seniority anymore they now have 9 years seniority to bid with? How do you think those that were hired between 1980 & 1996 felt when half of their time was taken away when they went f/t, but those hired after 1996 had no time taken away when they went f/t?

 

[D M G]

Were the Ramp agents DOH or class date when they were represented by he teamsters?

Class date.

If I'm remember correctly we had an agent who went part time after 16 years as a full timer, which gave him p/t classification seniority of 32 years. His p/t class date was very close to his birth date. If you didn't understand classification time it would appear that he was hired when he was two years old.

How do you think the HP folks are going to feel, (when going by your way of thinking), you tell them they don't have 18 years seniority anymore they now have 9 years seniority to bid with? How do you think those that were hired between 1980 & 1996 felt when half of their time was taken away when they went f/t, but those hired after 1996 had no time taken away when they went f/t?

Someones going to feel slighted either way, so why not give credit where credit is due. A p/t agent with 18 years should not have seniority over an agent that has been f/t for 10 years. It doesn't matter when you were hired, you put in less scheduled time and you deserve less seniority.

For those hired between 1980 and 1995; They couldn't care less what seniority system is used for someone hired in 1996, they'll always be ahead of them in seniority regardless of the system used.