Remember this in 2005? Union leaders bad or good?

[Glucose Intolerant]

More union infighting.

Do your professional really want to be associated with these thugs?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ilwu-longshoremen-protest-longview.html

Considering the alternatives........Yeah, Ill take my chances .........

 

[UPNAWAY]

Actually she is 100% correct about the minimum wage it is a job killer especially for those just entering the work force.

You want to put a big dent in youth unemployment lift the minimum wage for anyone under 21.

 

[700UW]

So older workers get fired and/or not hired and employers higher people under 21 and create higher unemployment for older workers.

Company gets more profits and workers get the shaft once again.

Not real smart.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I changed my mind about this post.

Image deleted by me.

 

[UPNAWAY]

700,

If a wage law is such a good idea, why not make it $15, $20 or $30 an hour?
And no company is going to fire an expirenced productive $20 an hour employee for a kid making $5, except in those cases where the job can be done by a know noting kid and than it really wasn't a $20 job was it?. The market will always adjust and fix things by reaching a natural equalibrium. Abritary restrictions just cost us all in the long ron.

 

[700UW]

Your totally wrong about age and companies, even your Idol Dougie, said "Fleet Service is not a career"

US just outsourced jobs that pay $20 an hour to people who are making $8.

And Minimum wage earners who have a wife and a kid are living at poverty level.

Get out of the cubicle and see what the real world is all about.

Who works for minimum wage, mostly immigrants and teenagers, go to any fast food place, grocery store and the evidence is right in front of you.

But once again, to no surprise you avoid the truth and facts.

Places like SFO have a living wage ordinance, you cant live on minimum wage and have a roof over your head, health insurance, car and food and still survive!

 

[CallawayGolf]

US just outsourced jobs that pay $20 an hour to people who are making $8.

So the fully burdened cost of the union jobs was about $30/hour ($20 * 1.5) versus the fully burdened cost of of the outsourced work is about $10/hour ($ * 1.25 for non-union with minimal benefits, if any). That calculates to a savings of $20 per hour for outsourcing or a 66% savings for those job functions. Hard to deny the benefit of selecting this option.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

So the fully burdened cost of the union jobs was about $30/hour ($20 * 1.5) versus the fully burdened cost of of the outsourced work is about $10/hour ($ * 1.25 for non-union with minimal benefits, if any). That calculates to a savings of $20 per hour for outsourcing or a 66% savings for those job functions. Hard to deny the benefit of selecting this option.

Of course except for the ethical reasons.....who needs that in a capitalist society anyway?. I am curious if you will be singing the same tune when anti-trust immunity is granted to the STAR alliance so your position can be out sourced to foreign nationals for significantly less.

Cabotage or Market equilibrium?

 

[UPNAWAY]

Who pays for people to have a career from a job that doesn't have a career value?
WE ALL DO?
Again if it is a great idea lets make it $100 hour for everyone! All our problems solved!
Wage laws, rent control, etc are all just false shuffling of the economy by government for the purpose of political power. The market can allocate everything better than a law and we all benefit from that.
Your economic understanding is amazingly limited 700. Not suprising coming form a airline employee and a union one at that.

 

[Kev3188]

So the fully burdened cost of the union jobs was about $30/hour ($20 * 1.5) versus the fully burdened cost of of the outsourced work is about $10/hour ($ * 1.25 for non-union with minimal benefits, if any). That calculates to a savings of $20 per hour for outsourcing or a 66% savings for those job functions. Hard to deny the benefit of selecting this option.

... Except that a 3PP is definitely charging US more than that for labor...

Flawed math, CG.

Of course except for the ethical reasons.....who needs that in a capitalist society anyway?.

Truth.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Of course except for the ethical reasons.....who needs that in a capitalist society anyway?. I am curious if you will be singing the same tune when anti-trust immunity is granted to the STAR alliance so your position can be out sourced to foreign nationals for significantly less.

Cabotage or Market equilibrium?

I don't advocate views based on how I may be enriched or benefited by them. I held the same economic opinions when I was nine years old and studying the political viewpoints of Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford and again four years later when I was cheering for Ronald Reagan to defeat president malaise himself. I held the same views when I was sixteen and looking for any job I could find, be it delivering the PennySaver door to door for $.03/each or being a dishwasher or busboy at $3.35/hr. I held these same view as I worked full-time while attending undergraduate school full-time in an effort to pay my own way while simultaneously seeking to advance my skills so that I could achieve a career and a wage I wanted.

No, my economic views really haven't changed much at all since I stood in line at seven years old with a $5 bill in hand to buy a plastic model of a Corvette which had a price tag of $4.95; it was only after I presented my purchase to the K-Mart cashier along with my $5 that I realized I couldn't complete the transaction because the city/state thought they were entitled to take some of the $5 I earned from doing my chores. K-mart lost a sale that day and I cemented my contempt for government sticking it's hand in my pocket or seeking to interfere with a private transaction between a seller and a buyer.

I think it would be a shame for America to continue to allow other nations to to beat us economically because we cannot face the truth of what these socialist policies are doing. We can compete in a free market and there is no reason for Americans to lose jobs or industries to other nations because we can and should fix these issues. If that does not happen and jobs are lost, I would blame government first and unions second, not business who are only trying to compete despite the insane regulations that come from Washington.

 

[UPNAWAY]

AFL-CIO goes to far this time!



President Richard Trumka uses 9-11 to play classless politics!
Truly disgusting human being! I challenge everyone to read his statements and see if he represents your beliefs and values.


http://www.aflcio.org/911_trumka.cfm

 

[CallawayGolf]

... Except that a 3PP is definitely charging US more than that for labor...

Flawed math, CG.

I used 700UW's numbers plus very typical payroll overhead/burden factors. I'm not privy to the actual rates US employees were making or what 3PP will be paid, but if you have real numbers let's work through the math together, shall we? You tell me what the employees were making per hour and what US is paying 3PP per hour or whatever. As long as we can make an apples to apples comparison we should be able to agree on what the differences in costs are. I'll show my work just as I did in the example above so that there isn't any chance of having flawed math.

 

[Kev3188]

Not debating the total compensation formula (I agree on a general base rate * 1.5 formula). What I am calling out is your using the $8.00/hr. claim to make an across-the-board assertion/savings claim as a foundation of your post. You know better.

I do not work for US, so I do not know what contracts they have in place for vendors. What I do know is that at my carrier, outfits like ATS were paying their workers $8-10/hr., but charging us almost double that. Other carriers at my previous airport saw roughly the same mark up.

 

[Pi brat]

I don't advocate views based on how I may be enriched or benefited by them. I held the same economic opinions when I was nine years old and studying the political viewpoints of Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford and again four years later when I was cheering for Ronald Reagan to defeat president malaise himself. I held the same views when I was sixteen and looking for any job I could find, be it delivering the PennySaver door to door for $.03/each or being a dishwasher or busboy at $3.35/hr. I held these same view as I worked full-time while attending undergraduate school full-time in an effort to pay my own way while simultaneously seeking to advance my skills so that I could achieve a career and a wage I wanted.

No, my economic views really haven't changed much at all since I stood in line at seven years old with a $5 bill in hand to buy a plastic model of a Corvette which had a price tag of $4.95; it was only after I presented my purchase to the K-Mart cashier along with my $5 that I realized I couldn't complete the transaction because the city/state thought they were entitled to take some of the $5 I earned from doing my chores. K-mart lost a sale that day and I cemented my contempt for government sticking it's hand in my pocket or seeking to interfere with a private transaction between a seller and a buyer.

I think it would be a shame for America to continue to allow other nations to to beat us economically because we cannot face the truth of what these socialist policies are doing. We can compete in a free market and there is no reason for Americans to lose jobs or industries to other nations because we can and should fix these issues. If that does not happen and jobs are lost, I would blame government first and unions second, not business who are only trying to compete despite the insane regulations that come from Washington.

I agree with a lot of your thoughts and it is obvious that you have given a great amount of thought and study to them. I'm sure we are only getting a glimpse of your thought here, but seeing all sides of the argument on here and a lot of the ones that are going on within our country and our nation, I get the feeling that a lot of people (not picking on you) discount one big thing: human nature. Every company, every union, every PTA, every church group, in general anytime there are more than two people involved, at times things come unglued. You can have the perfect system, but you have to account for human nature, and humans will screw up anything. IMHO, that's why communism cannot work. In a completely free market you have to watch for manipulators. With unions you have to watch for people who want the power and care about nothing else. In business if the leaders and BOD put enriching themselves ahead of the best interest of the company, it will fail. It seems the biggest place to watch is government.

Things swing back and forth with power moving around. When it swings too far, or gets stuck in one place, then you have trouble.