Remember this in 2005? Union leaders bad or good?

[700UW]

Thanks Kev, and great post.

He is running out of material, I guess Rush didnt get back to him, or he lost Fox News.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Agree with all of that, though I'd make the argument that rural offices are actually contributing to the economic engine of small town America. What I'd like to see is taking some of those offices , an co-locating them with other buildings in town.

You have a valid point and I agree to a point. What I was referring to is the situation here where I live now. We have 3 Post Office locations within a 3 mile radius and let the USPS ret to close one!!! Jesus H Christ you'd think someone proposed building a Nazi death camp. It's unbelievable how crazy people get over losing their hometown address.

 

[UPNAWAY]

This country is doomed if we have so many people thinking the Post Office is an example of efficient government. I will admit it is one of the few things the Federal government does that is actually Constitutional, but it certainly needs massive reforms.

 

[CallawayGolf]

How is Social Security a ponzi scheme?

Don't like the term Ponzi scheme? Okay, well how about just plain and simply bankrupt?

The facts are that there is no Social Security Trust Fund. Not a single dollar that is supposed to be in the account is actually there. Congress writes an IOU and then spends every last dollar paid via employee and employer paid FICA withholdings. With a $3.8 trillion budget and $2.4 trillion in total federal receipts, if the feds don't borrow money to pay the bills there will be substantial problems and risk of US defaults on all its obligations. Social Security recipients are just as much at risk of a government default as any other agency or program because the Treasury needs every penny that comes in during the month plus an additional $0.40 in debt to pay the bills. That's the big picture problem in Washington; now let's look at Social Security (remember there is no trust fund, just IOUs).

Here are some facts to seed the analysis that follows:
Total US taxpayers: 112M
Total Social Security Beneficiaries: 54M
Percent of recipients to total tax filers: 48%
Average US Household Income: $50K
Avg. taxpayer FICA contributions : $5,100 ($50k * 10.2%)
Avg. monthly FICA contribution: $425
Avg. Social Security check to retiree: $1,081

I rounded the figures above a bit, but you are free to check them out for yourself. Now some seniors have to file tax returns so they are accounted for in both groups. Nevertheless, let's assume that all 112 million tax filers pay on average pay their $5,100/yr. (includes both employer and employee portions for 2011). That comes out to $571 billion in annual payroll contributions compared with $712 billion in required Social Security payments. That represents a $141 billion shortfall just this year. The shortfall therefore needs to be paid by the income tax revenues that are already being overspent by $0.40 for ever dollar; and remember there is no Trust Fund left to fund the growing imbalance. Based on these numbers, Social Security is overspending it's receipts by 20% (collecting $0.80 for ever $1 in benefits paid).

The situation will continue to get worse based on a number of factors. First Congress continues to pass cost of living increases for beneficiaries. With an anemic economy and high unemployment, this only exacerbates the problems with underfunding the trust. Second, the Baby Boomer generation will increase the number of retirees by at least 5% which will also reduce the number of working contributors by the same factor. That's a 10% swing in the wrong direction for both the contributors and the recipients in the above data. That moves the $141 billion shortfall to a $205 billion shortfall alone. That calculates out to paying $1.27 in benefits for ever dollar collected. Third, the population in America is living longer now than at any time in our history. Life expectancy has grown from 70 years back in 1960 to almost 79 years in 2009. That means less retirees will depart from the program while more are coming into the program. Add all of this up and you have a fully insolvent program, Ponzi scheme or not.

Beyond all that. Just go back to the numbers listed above. Note that the average worker is contributing $425 in today's dollars every month while the average Social Security recipient is drawing more than twice that amount in monthly benefits. How can those ratios be maintained without a massive infusion of funds beyond payroll contributions? Remember there is no Trust Fund, so every dollar that comes in is spent the same month it is received. It's not like the average worker has thirty years worth of contributions sitting around waiting to be collected back at retirement. There is nothing there but an IOU from a government that is more irresponsible at controlling spending than any family or business could ever get away with. The whole system is broken and people refuse to look at the facts or be told the truth. Keeping our collective heads in the sand will only ensure our economic destruction. How much worse will people be hurting then than if we take steps to fix these problems now while there is still time?

 

[SparrowHawk]

This country is doomed if we have so many people thinking the Post Office is an example of efficient government. I will admit it is one of the few things the Federal government does that is actually Constitutional, but it certainly needs massive reforms.

Happen to KNOW how well they perform. Refute it with something than canned Rick Perry, Meo-Con talking points! The reason you haven't is you can't. Ask a Canadian about our Postal Service before you continue to prove yourself to be an ass further.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

SS is a ponzi scheme it always requires more new money coming in. It doesn't pay you with your saved and invested money it pays you with the new guys money. It is a classic ponzi. It should be eliminated and replaced with mandatory private retirement accounts.

700 I am surprised you can balance a check book, you couldn't pass an 8th grade economics course you brainwashed simpleton!

You, sir, are absolutely insane. It is no more a ponzi scheme than what any insurance company does. You should really consider a visit with a doctor. A mental doctor, if you get my drift.

I would think you were raped by your dad. Just sayin'

 

[BoeingBoy]

Happen to KNOW how well they perform. Refute it with something than canned Rick Perry, Meo-Con talking points! The reason you haven't is you can't. Ask a Canadian about our Postal Service before you continue to prove yourself to be an ass further.

While the USPS can deliver letters/packages to basically anybody in the U.S. 6 days a week and get them there in a timely fashion (longer for HI and AK), their fiscal house is collapsing. They are talking about needing to close a ton of post offices (I think 25-30%), stop Saturday delivery, lay off a couple of hundred thousand employees and still need more money than they take in (i.e. - continuing bailouts from Congress).

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

You, sir, are absolutely insane. It is no more a ponzi scheme than what any insurance company does.

You really don't understand the first thing about SS and Medicare, do you?

Jim

 

[Kev3188]

Jim, you're a little late to the party... The fact that the USPS is being weighed down by a congressional mandate to fully fund their retiree health care has already been discussed. Had they not had that burden, they'd be in the black.

 

[SparrowHawk]

While the USPS can deliver letters/packages to basically anybody in the U.S. 6 days a week and get them there in a timely fashion (longer for HI and AK), their fiscal house is collapsing. They are talking about needing to close a ton of post offices (I think 25-30%), stop Saturday delivery, lay off a couple of hundred thousand employees and still need more money than they take in (i.e. - continuing bailouts from Congress).

Jim

Indeed it is! However my point was/is that this is more a matter of technology than it is Labor Unions. E-mail and the internet have just stripped the profit out of the equation. Now I know Al Gore invented the Internet! Ask him, he'll tell you he did it while Earth hung in the balance 😀 But unless he unionized it too you can't blame the situation with the USPS at the feet of organized Labor.

With politics being what it is, I want to see how USPS is going to close 30% of their Post Offices? It should have been done 10 years ago but it never happened. I mentioned earlier that our here we have 3 Post Offices within a 2 mile radius and there needs to be ONE. But the wealthy (read, connected) residents of Spring Park & Navarre have pitched unholy fits and kept them open so as "Maintain Community Identity".

Not to worry Mr Hope and Change will save the USPS! Look how well he's done with everything else he touched 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

 

[john john]

With politics being what it is, I want to see how USPS is going to close 30% of their Post Offices? It should have been done 10 years ago but it never happened. I mentioned earlier that our here we have 3 Post Offices within a 2 mile radius and there needs to be ONE. But the wealthy (read, connected) residents of Spring Park & Navarre have pitched unholy fits and kept them open so as "Maintain Community Identity".

I can’t see them closing a lot of offices or reducing deliveries USPS upper management will just take a page out of corporate America and outsource to the cheapest bidder
Sound familiar

 

[SparrowHawk]

I can’t see them closing a lot of offices or reducing deliveries USPS upper management will just take a page out of corporate America and outsource to the cheapest bidder
Sound familiar

I don't know John-John IIRC the Postal Union has some pretty strong scope language. I'm not saying your wrong I just don't recall it ever happening. Either way though I think you're looking at MAJOR downsizing of the USPAS and it will likely start with the worker bees.

 

[700UW]

Chapter 11, here they come, Section 1113, they cant layoff Postal Workers due to the closure, probably file and abrogate their CBA.

Glass and Ford and Harrison are probably salivating.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Chapter 11, here they come, Section 1113, they cant layoff Postal Workers due to the closure, probably file and abrogate their CBA.

Glass and Ford and Harrison are probably salivating.

I think the Postal Service does have to ability to lay off thousands, unless you're more familiar with their contract. Also can a quasi-government agency use the regular BK laws?

 

[Kev3188]

Indeed it is! However my point was/is that this is more a matter of technology than it is Labor Unions. E-mail and the internet have just stripped the profit out of the equation.

Even with the lower volume of snail mail, they *still* brought in 68 billion last year.

They have also, um, "transitioned" over 100k employees already.

Everyone here seems to be missing the key point: They are forced to prepay retiree medical 100% now. This is an HUGE albatross around their neck. They also cannot access any of the overages paid into pension accounts to offset this burden.

HR 1351 would change that. Check it out here.