Same Road as USAir

[195PILOT]

I feel for the North West Pilots. You are going down the same road as USAirways Pilots. DO NOT! put your future into the hands of ALPA's merger policy! It took a USAPA win to give us our seniority back. This will all so protect us in our next merger. Good Luck to you all.

 

[skyflyr69]

BAck in December a bill was passed to use labor protective provisions if a non-alpa carrier is involved
or alpa merger policy if both carriers are alpa.

I would take the LPP's as alpa merger policy is totally flawed.

Delta has just instituted another "TWA Wrap around agreement" protecting themselves.

That is not unionism.
:angry:

BITTER!!

 

[700UW]

E195, you havent gotten your seniority back and changing unions doesnt void a binding arbitration decision.

 

[UPNAWAY]

E195, you havent gotten your seniority back and changing unions doesnt void a binding arbitration decision.

Not to mention E195 but if we merge again with an ALPA carrier you will be stapled!

 

[groundcontrol]

I feel for the North West Pilots. You are going down the same road as USAirways Pilots. DO NOT! put your future into the hands of ALPA's merger policy! It took a USAPA win to give us our seniority back. This will all so protect us in our next merger. Good Luck to you all.

These boys (CEO's) have been getting their ducks in a row since 2004 or possibly even before that!
Why no one caught on sooner is beyond me. :blink:

 

[southwind]

Well maybe if the NW pilots would have agreed to "A FAIR" integration of seniority lists , instead of trying to screw 2000 Delta pilots , they'd be sitting on a 30 percent pay increase right now !

Delta negoiated the best deal for "Thier" members, NW had their chance and wanted their cake and to eat it too ! Look where it got them !

 

[USAir757]

Well maybe if the NW pilots would have agreed to "A FAIR" integration of seniority lists , instead of trying to screw 2000 Delta pilots , they'd be sitting on a 30 percent pay increase right now !

Delta negoiated the best deal for "Thier" members, NW had their chance and wanted their cake and to eat it too ! Look where it got them !

Greed begets greed. In the end, you'll lose. US West knows what I'm talking about.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I heard there was a lot of "trash talking" this weekend on the International frequency over the pond. As Northwest pilots asked US Airways pilots about the vote United and Delta pilots would chime in with nasty remarks and sounds. You guys at Northwest have to get rid of ALPA soon or you'll find yourselves at Costco buying the 'supersized' jar of Vaseline to cope with Delta's $%ew job. Good luck to you guys.

Later,
Eye

 

[nwa400]

I heard there was a lot of "trash talking" this weekend on the International frequency over the pond. As Northwest pilots asked US Airways pilots about the vote United and Delta pilots would chime in with nasty remarks and sounds. You guys at Northwest have to get rid of ALPA soon or you'll find yourselves at Costco buying the 'supersized' jar of Vaseline to cope with Delta's $%ew job. Good luck to you guys.

Later,
Eye

SOUTHWIND. You need to get your facts straight. Rumors-Rumors-Rumors
NWA PILOTS did not want to staple anyone. We were in search for a FAIR deal. There was not one there. The raises can be taken away one day after signing. Seniority cannot. We wanted and want arbitration. DAL did not. Now they do. Instead of spreading rumors.....get your facts straight.
The NWA pilots are good people and just want a fair deal.

 

[whaledriver]

I feel for the North West Pilots. You are going down the same road as USAirways Pilots. DO NOT! put your future into the hands of ALPA's merger policy! It took a USAPA win to give us our seniority back. This will all so protect us in our next merger. Good Luck to you all.

The word out on the line is that NWA pilots may decertify ALPA and form it's own union (i.e. USAirways USAPA union). After voting ALPA out, NWA Pilots will be able to exercise the McCaskill-Bond provision, allowing a 'Fair & Equitable' seniority list integration. The provision will model seniority based on Date of Hire. I am sure ALPA national wants NWA-DAL to work out a fair SLI. John Pratter please wake up...

 

[Kev3188]

The word out on the line is that NWA pilots may decertify ALPA and form it's own union (i.e. USAirways USAPA union).

Really?!

:blink: :blink:

Here's an honest question for you "drivers": What would make the provisions in the McCaskill-Bond Amendment (remember, there are no specific procedures outlined) more appealing than whatever ALPA's integration policy is?

Thanks.

 

[hulagirl]

I feel for the North West Pilots. You are going down the same road as USAirways Pilots. DO NOT! put your future into the hands of ALPA's merger policy! It took a USAPA win to give us our seniority back. This will all so protect us in our next merger. Good Luck to you all.

How do you figure you got your "seniority back" . Arbitration is binding. So, you want all of the other ALPA members to become sour scabbage grapes along with you?

 

[USFlyer]

I feel for the North West Pilots. You are going down the same road as USAirways Pilots. DO NOT! put your future into the hands of ALPA's merger policy! It took a USAPA win to give us our seniority back. This will all so protect us in our next merger. Good Luck to you all.

I'm amazed how people don't understand that when you enter into binding arbitration, it's actually "binding". The US East pilots got themselves into this mess. It's not the US West pilots' fault nor is it management's. US East pilots went into arbitration thinking they'd get everything (or almost everything) they wanted. They didn't, and now they're crying foul.

Again, I said this a few weeks ago, at some point the two unions need to sit down and hammer this out.

 

[Low&away]

Really?!

:blink: :blink:

Here's an honest question for you "drivers": What would make the provisions in the McCaskill-Bond Amendment (remember, there are no specific procedures outlined) more appealing than whatever ALPA's integration policy is?

Thanks.

Your point is well taken. In general terms ALPA merger policy provides a framework for integrating seniority lists of merging Airline companies. Like the McCaskill-Bond amendment there is no guaranteed outcome as there is with AFA. In the AWA AAA arbitration, AWA counsel successfully argued that LOS or DOH could not be used as a rationale for integration under ALPA merger policy. In its extreme this led to 16 year LOS pilots being placed behind two year pilots. Yes this recent outcome could be an aberration, but none the less it was constructed under ALPA merger policy. I don't believe such an outcome has ever been produced under A&M LPP's. It does not mean an ALPA appointed arbitrator has to ignore LOS or DOH but history tells me that one merging party would hammer this point home for personal advantage. Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's are referenced in the McCaskill-Bond Amendment. A&M LPP's have shown historically to produce LOS and or DOH style integrations. The dispatchers unions of AWA and AAA were recently arbitrated under A&M LPP's. The arbitrator ruled in favor of DOH. As I said neither ALPA merger policy nor Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's guarantee outcomes. However I believe it is reasonable to assume that competent counsel could argue for LOS or DOH more successfully under A&M LPP's than ALPA merger policy. One more note of interest. ALPA merger policy is negotiated by elected ALPA leaders. It could theoretically change tomorrow without membership consent. The McCaskill-Bond amendment is federal law. JMO, and yes I do have a bias toward DOH.

 

[luvthe9]

Don't worry Lee Moak is looking for you guys DUMP ALPA NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Your MEC will sell you guys out big time, just watch and wait.