Same Road as USAir

[luv2fly]

Don't worry Lee Moak is looking for you guys DUMP ALPA NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Your MEC will sell you guys out big time, just watch and wait.

I wonder what the record is for the shortest existence of a union? You'll be back in ALPA soon enough.
This time however, you won't have the numbers on your side.

 

[luvthe9]

I wonder what the record is for the shortest existence of a union? You'll be back in ALPA soon enough.
This time however, you won't have the numbers on your side.

Were trying to help UAL here not do something they don't want. Everyone knows how A-West can't wait to get there hands on those big planes at UAL and again claim how they save UAL. I think all the boys realize it. WOW oil over 122 today on it's way to 150 or 200 Bloomberg says, all cuts coming from the west I bet.

 

[ZMAN777]

BAck in December a bill was passed to use labor protective provisions if a non-alpa carrier is involved
or alpa merger policy if both carriers are alpa.

I would take the LPP's as alpa merger policy is totally flawed.

Delta has just instituted another "TWA Wrap around agreement" protecting themselves.

That is not unionism.
:angry:

BITTER!!

Just to set the record straight, it's time to understand what the McCaskill-Bond amendment of HR 2764 bill really does/does not say:


ALPA-Backed Seniority Integration Legislation Protects Pilots, Contracts and ALPA Merger Policy. It Does Not Provide or Require a Date of Hire Integration.

ALPA, along with the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) and the AFL-CIO’s Transportation Trades Department, recently worked closely with Labor’s allies on Capitol Hill to enact seniority integration legislation that protects ALPA pilots’ career interests and the Association’s merger policies and labor agreements in future merger integrations.

This legislation, which was signed by the President into law in late December, ensures that if an ALPA pilot group merges with an ALPA pilot group, the Association’s internal merger policies and the pilots’ collectively-bargained merger integration provisions will continue to govern as before. If an ALPA pilot group merges with a non-ALPA pilot group, the ALPA pilots involved will also retain the hard-won labor protective merger provisions of their collective bargaining agreements.

However, the legislation also guarantees such pilots, and all unionized employees under the Railway Labor Act, at least a minimum standard of merger protection in future transactions by ensuring a “fair and equitable†seniority integration process under the Allegheny-Mohawk merger provisions. These provisions, like ALPA Merger Policy, provide a process that includes negotiation, and if necessary, arbitration concerning seniority integration.

Contrary to the unfounded claims made by the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), this new law does NOT provide for, or guarantee, “date of hire†or any other longevity-based integration or, for that matter, any other specific standard of integration in seniority integration arbitrations.

In fact, the integration standards that would be applied by arbitrators would be similar under both ALPA Merger Policy and the Allegheny-Mohawk seniority integration procedures provided for in this legislation. The standards applied by arbitrators under both procedures have typically included consideration of career expectations for the pilots at the two carriers at the time of the merger, and have been implemented through ratios, as well as date of hire and other methodologies.

Although there are procedural differences (such as varying timelines) between ALPA Merger Policy and the Allegheny-Mohawk process, the only other major difference is that management may be directly involved in the negotiations and arbitration process under Allegheny-Mohawk, but not under ALPA Merger Policy. That difference—inserting management in the process—is not a helpful change for pilots.

Simply put, the Allegheny-Mohawk legislation does NOT require or even refer to date of hire or length of service integration. But you don’t have to take ALPA National’s word on it. Merger counsel independently retained by the US Airways MEC has stated clearly that the Allegheny-Mohawk procedures required in the legislation “make no mention of date of hire methodology. [This process] provides only for ‘a fair and equitable manner’ of seniority integration. It carries no more preference, or disfavor, of date of hire integration than does ALPA Merger Policy.†Merger counsel independently retained by the America West MEC has taken the same position, concluding: “Allegheny-Mohawk procedures give no preference to date of hire (or, for that matter, to any particular integration methodology). Like Merger Policy, they don’t mention date of hire at all.â€

USAPA is simply wrong when it alleges that “in order to reap the benefit†of the new legislation, US Airways pilots “must remove themselves from ALPA.†The truth is that in the absence of a negotiated seniority integration agreement, under both procedures it is up to the arbitrator to decide which standards to apply to accomplish the integration

You should ask why USAPA is not providing accurate information on this important issue, one that could significantly affect you in a future transaction.

This legislation was originally proposed by AFA and stemmed from the inequities that arose when the independent unions that represent the flight attendants and pilots of American Airlines forced the flight attendants and pilots of the former Trans World Airlines to forgo a merger seniority arbitration process and suffer imposed seniority terms that disfavored these groups. ALPA insisted upon legislative provisions for protection of ALPA Merger Policy in an ALPA-ALPA merger and for retention of any additional protections for ALPA pilots beyond Allegheny-Mohawk procedures in ALPA labor agreements. The ALPA-drafted language on these key provisions was adopted by Congress and signed by the President. This important legislative success demonstrates ALPA’s leadership role on Capitol Hill.


Cheers,
Z B)

 

[dariencc]

Just to set the record straight, it's time to understand what the McCaskill-Bond amendment of HR 2764 bill really does/does not say:


Contrary to the unfounded claims made by the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), this new law does NOT provide for, or guarantee, “date of hireâ€￾ or any other longevity-based integration or, for that matter, any other specific standard of integration in seniority integration arbitrations.


Cheers,
Z B)

Your post does not set the record straight on USAPA's statements about Allegheny/Mohawk. The fact is that USAPA has never made the "unfounded claim" that A/M mandates date-of-hire. They have pointed out, correctly, that arbitrations under A/M have historically given greater weight to DOH and LOS than those under the Alpa merger policy of the last 15 years.

Interesting that you posted an opinion piece on the subject without identifying the source. It is instantly recognizable as one of the LCC Alpa campaign mailings during the recent election. The paragraph referencing USAPA is a complete lie, one of many from our distinguished Alpa leaders. Now they are ex-leaders.

 

[Low&away]

Your post does not set the record straight on USAPA's statements about Allegheny/Mohawk. The fact is that USAPA has never made the "unfounded claim" that A/M mandates date-of-hire. They have pointed out, correctly, that arbitrations under A/M have historically given greater weight to DOH and LOS than those under the Alpa merger policy of the last 15 years.

Interesting that you posted an opinion piece on the subject without identifying the source. It is instantly recognizable as one of the LCC Alpa campaign mailings during the recent election. The paragraph referencing USAPA is a complete lie, one of many from our distinguished Alpa leaders. Now they are ex-leaders.

Ditto! I have never read an official USAPA claim that stated Allegheny/ Mohawk guarantees DOH or LOS. What is on record though is the fact that Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's historically produce DOH style integrations. It is also a record of fact that AWA counsel successfully argued that DOH and LOS should not be a consideration under ALPA merger policy. The AWA/AAA award is in fact a template for other merging ALPA carriers. I know of no such president under Allegheny/Mohawk. JMO- ALPA will at some point change there merger policy. Not out of principle but out of self preservation. Will it be to late? Only time will tell..

 

[skyflyr69]

Ditto! I have never read an official USAPA claim that stated Allegheny/ Mohawk guarantees DOH or LOS. What is on record though is the fact that Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's historically produce DOH style integrations. It is also a record of fact that AWA counsel successfully argued that DOH and LOS should not be a consideration under ALPA merger policy. The AWA/AAA award is in fact a template for other merging ALPA carriers. I know of no such president under Allegheny/Mohawk. JMO- ALPA will at some point change there merger policy. Not out of principle but out of self preservation. Will it be to late? Only time will tell..

Now that the mothership ( ALPA ) will tap 401 k contributions ( for dues ) to keep Herndon in the lifestyle they are accustomed to does this not
get anyones hair to stand on end??
:angry: