St. Louis News?

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

The ex-TWA pilot's and F/A's may have reason to be bitter about how their seniority integration was handled, but the ex-Mechanics and fleet service people need to just shut up and quit complaining. Allegheny-Mohawk was followed to the letter in the case of the TWU-IAM employees. The arbitraitor ruled, so live with it! I personally supported giving the ex-TWA folks at least a ratio dovetail, so don't even think I'm one of those "staple" types. Ex-TWA people are beginning to sound like a broken record.

 

[MCI transplant]

The ex-TWA pilot's and F/A's may have reason to be bitter about how their seniority integration was handled, but the ex-Mechanics and fleet service people need to just shut up and quit complaining. Allegheny-Mohawk was followed to the letter in the case of the TWU-IAM employees. The arbitraitor ruled, so live with it! I personally supported giving the ex-TWA folks at least a ratio dovetail, so don't even think I'm one of those "staple" types. Ex-TWA people are beginning to sound like a broken record.

<_< Don't pull your pony tail too tight princess!!! When the truth is told, you really don't want to hear it!!! But there it is!!! Now aa's in a spot over the Wright Amendment, they want us to use our influance with our Congressional Representatives after the screwing these States: Missouri, Kansas, Illinonis, New York, has taken from aa over the TWA fiascal!!! All I got to say is they have balls!!!! 😉

 

[MCI transplant]

The ex-TWA pilot's and F/A's may have reason to be bitter about how their seniority integration was handled, but the ex-Mechanics and fleet service people need to just shut up and quit complaining. Allegheny-Mohawk was followed to the letter in the case of the TWU-IAM employees. The arbitraitor ruled, so live with it! I personally supported giving the ex-TWA folks at least a ratio dovetail, so don't even think I'm one of those "staple" types. Ex-TWA people are beginning to sound like a broken record.

<_< As for the AMT/ ramp seniority issue, to this day, the TWU, and aa have not honered either the Kasher agreement, or our own current Contract!!!! We are being treated as if we were outside that Contract! Read ART.10e of our current contract. The one signed "After" the Kasher ruling! It says if we're layed off, our seniority can not be changed in any way! I have 100% of my seniority! That's 35+years! Art.10e doesn't say that that artical applies to nAAtives only!!!It doesn't say "except exTWAers"!!! So why weren't my fellow AMT's not given the opertunity to excess their Contractual rights!!??? Laws suits against aa, and the TWU are now ongoing as we speak, over exactly this issue!!! Close to 300 greavances have been written over this excact issue, and the Kasher ruling, over a year ago, and our local can't seem to find them!!!The issue of system pertection also comes into play! What we're saying is yes! The arbertrator has ruled! And yes! We have a new contract! But aa, and the TWU have not adheared to either!!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_<And yes! We have a new contract! But aa, and the TWU have not adheared to either!!!!!

We've been trying to tell the ex-TWAers this for over 4 years now and they always admit that it's true but refuse to do anything about it. We always get the, "my local aint bad" BS, when the truth is your local is the one pumping the ex-TWAers full of the BS.

 

[aafsc]

<_< Don't pull your pony tail too tight princess!!! When the truth is told, you really don't want to hear it!!! But there it is!!! Now aa's in a spot over the Wright Amendment, they want us to use our influance with our Congressional Representatives after the screwing these States: Missouri, Kansas, Illinonis, New York, has taken from aa over the TWA fiascal!!! All I got to say is they have balls!!!! 😉

Well, if Bond hates AA so much that he wants to harm them, AA could always close MCI permanently and make STL a line station. With respect to the Kasher ruling regarding TWA seniority; should a TWAer with 40 years of TW seniority who is in a 4/10/01 station with 4/10/01 seniority revert back to his TW seniority if he bids a Crew Cheif spot in MCI or STL or should his seniority stay 4/10/01 when he returns to a TWA base? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< As for the AMT/ ramp seniority issue, to this day, the TWU, and aa have not honered either the Kasher agreement, or our own current Contract!!!! We are being treated as if we were outside that Contract! Read ART.10e of our current contract. The one signed "After" the Kasher ruling! It says if we're layed off, our seniority can not be changed in any way! I have 100% of my seniority! That's 35+years! Art.10e doesn't say that that artical applies to nAAtives only!!!It doesn't say "except exTWAers"!!! So why weren't my fellow AMT's not given the opertunity to excess their Contractual rights!!??? Laws suits against aa, and the TWU are now ongoing as we speak, over exactly this issue!!! Close to 300 greavances have been written over this excact issue, and the Kasher ruling, over a year ago, and our local can't seem to find them!!!The issue of system pertection also comes into play! What we're saying is yes! The arbertrator has ruled! And yes! We have a new contract! But aa, and the TWU have not adheared to either!!!!!

Well the truth is that the TWA guys were used to try and screw over New York and California.

Whoever heard of having three different occupational seniority dates?

If you were granted 25% it should have been systemwide with a fence around MCI that expired at some point in the future. But in order to screw over the two most troublesome areas they had to come up with that complicated mess.

As for your Local losing 300 grievances, what did you expect? How many of your Local leaders collect a paycheck from the company while on UB? Your President is undoubtably doing whatever he can to get one of those International spots, did you ever see the Pension that the International provides? Its based on their best year, the multiplier is nearly double ours and every year they get a 5% increase!!!

At least Butch was a straight shooter compared to the guy you have now. He saw what the International was all about thats why they helped oust him.

 

[aafsc]

<_< As for the AMT/ ramp seniority issue, to this day, the TWU, and aa have not honered either the Kasher agreement, or our own current Contract!!!! We are being treated as if we were outside that Contract! Read ART.10e of our current contract. The one signed "After" the Kasher ruling! It says if we're layed off, our seniority can not be changed in any way! I have 100% of my seniority! That's 35+years! Art.10e doesn't say that that artical applies to nAAtives only!!!It doesn't say "except exTWAers"!!! So why weren't my fellow AMT's not given the opertunity to excess their Contractual rights!!??? Laws suits against aa, and the TWU are now ongoing as we speak, over exactly this issue!!! Close to 300 greavances have been written over this excact issue, and the Kasher ruling, over a year ago, and our local can't seem to find them!!!The issue of system pertection also comes into play! What we're saying is yes! The arbertrator has ruled! And yes! We have a new contract! But aa, and the TWU have not adheared to either!!!!!

There is no issue of system or any kind of protection as far as TWAers are concerned. According to Article 42 in the contract, to receive protection one must have been; a.) hired by AA before 9/24/98 (TWAers were hired on 4/10/01) and b.)one must have been on the company's ACTIVE PAYROLL before 9/24/98. Can you or any other TWAer produce an AA paystub dated before 9/24/98?

 

[Bagbelt]

What good is system protection if they roll it back when there is a big rif? If we acquire Alaska my money says they get full time, just like air-cal and reno.

 

[aafsc]

What good is system protection if they roll it back when there is a big rif? If we acquire Alaska my money says they get full time, just like air-cal and reno.

AA purchased AirCal's and Reno's stock. AirCal was TWU. If I remember correctly, the few mechanics Reno had were non-union and were stapled and I believe they had no rampers because they contracted all that out. I doubt we will acquire Alaska. That is all we need is another transaction to buy a west coast airline for the THIRD time only to dismantle it later like they did AirCal and Reno.

 

[MCI transplant]

There is no issue of system or any kind of protection as far as TWAers are concerned. According to Article 42 in the contract, to receive protection one must have been; a.) hired by AA before 9/24/98 (TWAers were hired on 4/10/01) and b.)one must have been on the company's ACTIVE PAYROLL before 9/24/98. Can you or any other TWAer produce an AA paystub dated before 9/24/98?

<_< aa----I don't have to produce anything! These are points that are in contention in court today!!!I can give you my view on the subject, and it might be the one being pressed in the suit! I bebieve the contract, when refurring to system protection, merly states that aa will gaurentee that person a job in the system! That person can be bumped by someone with more seniority!! But because he is protected, aa has to provide him with a job!!! They can't put him out in the street! I feel that according to our presant Contract Art.10e, which was signed "after" the Kasher rulings, we have been denied our Contractual right to bump the system with our current seniority!!!Note: Art.10e, does not say, "this art. pertains to nAAtive empolees only!" It does not state, "except exTWA emploees"!!! If Kasher aworded me' and my fellow exTWA emploees here at MCI 100% of our seniority, according to our presant Contract, we should have been able to excercise that seniority!! We were denied that right, and discriminated against, not only by aa, but by our own Union, the TWU!!!!! Greavances have been writer, and filed, but last I've heard misplaced!!! Close to 300 of them!!!! 😉

 

[Hopeful]

Speaking of misplaced, where is the IAM seniority list that was "misplaced?"

You know, the one that "carved" up all the mechanics seniorities when they moved form aicraft maintenance to plant maintenance to automotive maintenance?

Where is that list, MCI?

That's the list that the TWU brought up to Kasher who replied he didn't want to waste any more time looking for!

American's PURCHASE of TWA is the biggest blunder in commercial aviation.

You people have 4/10/01 seniority..That's it!!


And you people get to pick vacation first having only 4 years and 8 months at American Airlines and you are getting American Airlines 25, 35 year service plagues and pins as if you here since the 60's and 70's.


You are a ungrateful bunch who are lucky to have jobs and you have the balls to file lawsuits and grievances.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< aa----I don't have to produce anything! These are points that are in contention in court today!!!I can give you my view on the subject, and it might be the one being pressed in the suit! I bebieve the contract, when refurring to system protection, merly states that aa will gaurentee that person a job in the system! That person can be bumped by someone with more seniority!! But because he is protected, aa has to provide him with a job!!! They can't put him out in the street! I feel that according to our presant Contract Art.10e, which was signed "after" the Kasher rulings, we have been denied our Contractual right to bump the system with our current seniority!!!Note: Art.10e, does not say, "this art. pertains to nAAtive empolees only!" It does not state, "except exTWA emploees"!!! If Kasher aworded me' and my fellow exTWA emploees here at MCI 100% of our seniority, according to our presant Contract, we should have been able to excercise that seniority!! We were denied that right, and discriminated against, not only by aa, but by our own Union, the TWU!!!!! Greavances have been writer, and filed, but last I've heard misplaced!!! Close to 300 of them!!!! 😉

What exactly were you denied?

Due to the Kasher decision you have three different current occupational seniority dates, 100% in KC, 25% in a few selected cities and 4/10/01 everywhere else.

Kasher awarded you 100% in MCI, thats only in MCI, if you try to go to NYC your occupational seniority date is currently 25% of your TWA time up to 4/10/01 plus your AA time, and if you tried to go to DFW you only have 4/10/01.

As far as the system protection went I agree that it should have prevented your guys from being laid off in that if there was a worker in NYC with 3/01/01 seniority(the old system protection date) then the company could not lay anyone off from TWA that could have held at least that much seniority in NYC, or in other words anyone with 3/01/97 MCI Seniority or better.

However when MCI followed the Internationals advice and you guys voted to accept rolling back system protection back to 1998 (since you did "not have system protection") they then effectively rolled it back for themselves to 1985. So anyone with less than 1985 seniority in MCI was no longer protected by a less senior guy in NYC, a 25% city. Thats because you guys did not have system protection however if someone with less seniority than you had it then they could not lay you off because of the contract.

So by rolling it back three years, in the 25% cities you exposed guys to a layoff with 4 times as much time, you rolled it back from 1997 to 1985. We explained this to your E-board during our visit but they were in such a panic, caused by your current President I might add, that they didnt want to hear anything we had to say. Now do you see why the company and the International wanted to roll it back instead of eliminating it? By rolling the date back they could target you guys for the layoff. If the junior guy in NYC is even lower, the effect is even more dramatic. If the Junior guy in NYC is 1990 then everyone from MCI would be long gone with nowhere to go even if they had someone with 4/9/01 in DFW or any other 4/10/01 city.

 

[aafsc]

<_< aa----I don't have to produce anything! These are points that are in contention in court today!!!I can give you my view on the subject, and it might be the one being pressed in the suit! I bebieve the contract, when refurring to system protection, merly states that aa will gaurentee that person a job in the system! That person can be bumped by someone with more seniority!! But because he is protected, aa has to provide him with a job!!! They can't put him out in the street! I feel that according to our presant Contract Art.10e, which was signed "after" the Kasher rulings, we have been denied our Contractual right to bump the system with our current seniority!!!Note: Art.10e, does not say, "this art. pertains to nAAtive empolees only!" It does not state, "except exTWA emploees"!!! If Kasher aworded me' and my fellow exTWA emploees here at MCI 100% of our seniority, according to our presant Contract, we should have been able to excercise that seniority!! We were denied that right, and discriminated against, not only by aa, but by our own Union, the TWU!!!!! Greavances have been writer, and filed, but last I've heard misplaced!!! Close to 300 of them!!!! 😉

What your lawsuit is saying is that someone in MCI or STL who has their 100% TWA seniority should be able to take that 100% anywhere in the system. Answer this question, should someone with 40 years of TWA seniority in a 4/10/01 station who goes to MCI, STL, or even a 25% station have his seniority increased to their benefit or should it remain at 4/10/01? Some ex-TWAers have been able to get back to STL and MCI as crew chiefs. They came from 25% and 4/10/01 stations and when they got to STL and MCI they got 100% of their TWA senoirity. And I recall Kasher ruled this was permissable. So in my opinion, this sets a precedent because their seniority was changed (to their benefit) and there was no (to my knowledge) any grievances or lawsuits filed. Why was nothing filed when these TWAers benefited from the Kasher ruling? Is it because of the TWAers unquenchable thirst for nAAtive blood? To reap where you did not sow? Kasher based his decision on what each side contributed on 4/9/01. That is how he came up with 100%, 25% and 4/10/01 and it was intended to be permanent! Period!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -----Good evening aa! As to your questions, we'll have to wait and see what the jury in this case says! But I have a question for you! Which do you feel takes presadants? Kasher's Rulings? Or our presant Contract? When do you feel Kasher should step out of the picture, if at all??? Do you feel threatened by this lawsuit??? Oh! I found something that might interest you! It seems that there may be some contention as to the dates of Artical 42 of our contract! At least as concerned with title1!!! I came accross a letter writen by John Conley to a Mr. James Weel, managing director of employee relations dated Dec.20, 2004! It seems Mr. Conley refures to the 2003 concesionary agreement, and requists said dates of art.42 be restored,(corrected)!!!! I really don't know what that's all about! And am not suggesting anything either, but it do'es draw questions as to even if the artical is in fact presently part of our contact!!????

 

[B.O.B.]

<_< Just for the record DFWCC---- Even though corl737 works for WN, he still has a point!! Senitor Bond is Chairmen of the Senate Transpertation Commetee! And from what I've heard, he has no love for Arpy and aa because of the way they handeled the TWA employee intragration, and aa's pull out of STL, and MCI!! Could this be another case of "What goes arround, comes arround?"

TWA is DEAD as DEAD gets! All of you former TWA folks need to give it a rest. If you want TWA back then start TWA again. Heck, someone started Pan-Am again a couple of years ago. They fly to Gary, Indiana! Maybe the new TWA can fly to Gary too?

T = Totally
W = Wasted
A = Airliner