TA reached?
- Thread starter eolesen
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ALPA calls it an agreement in principle, not yet a TA.
https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=48862
Here's a thread with a UA pilot post:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1373348-alpa-reaches-agreement-principle.html
https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=48862
Here's a thread with a UA pilot post:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1373348-alpa-reaches-agreement-principle.html
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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It would be great news for UA and its labor groups if it could start the process of integrating workforces and gaining labor efficiencies that are part of the justification of the merger.
There are number of major considerations that are in play that UA must either meet or exceed – and if they do, the agreement will cost a lot of money. UA’s ALPA unit says the difference in the value of their contract vs. Delta’s is worth about $750M/year.
Here are the issues which UA and CO pilots say are issues on pilot-focused discussion boards:
1. Pay. Their expectation is to meet or exceed DL’s levels. While DL pilots had goals of reaching WN’s pay levels and would reach those levels by the end of the DL contract IF WN doesn’t implement its own pay raises by that point, the difference in pay between PMUA and DL pay raises on some equipment types is as much as 50%. AA’s pilots will have higher pay under the terms of their current proposal than UA pilots. Many UA and CO pilots expect retro pay since the process of renewal for their contract has taken so long.
2. Scope. CO had no RJs larger than 50 jets but did have Q400s. UA’s seat cap on RJs was lower than DL’s. IN order for UA to add large RJs as DL did, they would likely have to either pull out a lot of 50 seat RJs – which affects the ability of UA to maintain its current number of hubs.
3. UA has 1400 pilots on furlough; it is doubtful that anything that threatens any further job losses will be approved and many want UA to start recalling some of those furloughees.
Those are all expectations that may or may not be reached... but it does say that UA and CO pilots alike expect big changes to their current contract and it will be very hard for UA/CO pilots to accept something that is inferior to other peers in the industry given UA's financial performance.
In the face of Wall Street’s negativity regarding UA mgmt’s ability to deliver the benefits of the merger – UA’s stock is off about 25% in the past 3 weeks – as well as a lot of high profile operational problems - perhaps they recognize it is time to make the integration work.
But this is not a formal contract – there are a lot of details that have yet to be worked out – and the cost of coming to an agreement could be a lot more than Wall Street realizes.
Obviously, a lot of people will be glad if UA can pull it all off, but the expectations on all sides to come up w/ an agreement that is acceptable to the pilots w/o breaking the bank are very high.
There are number of major considerations that are in play that UA must either meet or exceed – and if they do, the agreement will cost a lot of money. UA’s ALPA unit says the difference in the value of their contract vs. Delta’s is worth about $750M/year.
Here are the issues which UA and CO pilots say are issues on pilot-focused discussion boards:
1. Pay. Their expectation is to meet or exceed DL’s levels. While DL pilots had goals of reaching WN’s pay levels and would reach those levels by the end of the DL contract IF WN doesn’t implement its own pay raises by that point, the difference in pay between PMUA and DL pay raises on some equipment types is as much as 50%. AA’s pilots will have higher pay under the terms of their current proposal than UA pilots. Many UA and CO pilots expect retro pay since the process of renewal for their contract has taken so long.
2. Scope. CO had no RJs larger than 50 jets but did have Q400s. UA’s seat cap on RJs was lower than DL’s. IN order for UA to add large RJs as DL did, they would likely have to either pull out a lot of 50 seat RJs – which affects the ability of UA to maintain its current number of hubs.
3. UA has 1400 pilots on furlough; it is doubtful that anything that threatens any further job losses will be approved and many want UA to start recalling some of those furloughees.
Those are all expectations that may or may not be reached... but it does say that UA and CO pilots alike expect big changes to their current contract and it will be very hard for UA/CO pilots to accept something that is inferior to other peers in the industry given UA's financial performance.
In the face of Wall Street’s negativity regarding UA mgmt’s ability to deliver the benefits of the merger – UA’s stock is off about 25% in the past 3 weeks – as well as a lot of high profile operational problems - perhaps they recognize it is time to make the integration work.
But this is not a formal contract – there are a lot of details that have yet to be worked out – and the cost of coming to an agreement could be a lot more than Wall Street realizes.
Obviously, a lot of people will be glad if UA can pull it all off, but the expectations on all sides to come up w/ an agreement that is acceptable to the pilots w/o breaking the bank are very high.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
The Wall Street Journal in an interview says that UA pilots obtained pay levels comparable to DL's while allowing the company to use more large RJs while protecting and recapturing jobs.
"Capt. Pierce, Continental's union chief, said in an interview Friday that the new Delta deal "had a significant and positive effect on our contract. It is fair to say (ours) is on par with Delta from a pay-rate perspective." He also said the Delta pilots' decision to let their airline contract more, larger regional jets to fly with its commuter affiliates in return for other benefits set a precedent in the industry. United pilots succeeded, in their provisional deal, "in protecting our pilots and recapturing jobs," Capt. Pierce said, "while providing the company flexibility to compete."
UAL stock is down a touch at midday as most other airline stocks show slight gains despite significant increases in the price of oil.
"Capt. Pierce, Continental's union chief, said in an interview Friday that the new Delta deal "had a significant and positive effect on our contract. It is fair to say (ours) is on par with Delta from a pay-rate perspective." He also said the Delta pilots' decision to let their airline contract more, larger regional jets to fly with its commuter affiliates in return for other benefits set a precedent in the industry. United pilots succeeded, in their provisional deal, "in protecting our pilots and recapturing jobs," Capt. Pierce said, "while providing the company flexibility to compete."
UAL stock is down a touch at midday as most other airline stocks show slight gains despite significant increases in the price of oil.
World,
UA did have 1400 plus pilots on furlough due to the scope provisions in their BK contract. That allowed the company to park an entire fleet and farm out the flying. However, when the merger was announced, Continental was hiring pilots to cover aircraft they had on order. These aircraft were for expansion and historically Continental has been short of pilots. The entire list of 1400 plus pilots on the UA side has been offered jobs on the Continental side. Many took the job, some passed. It's save to say though that fewer than 200 to 300 are still out, but these are the ones who have passed on the job voluntarily.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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After almost 10 years, I'm sure many passed up recall and some will never work as US airline pilots again. That is the nature of very long recalls.
UA ALPA continues to say that there are significant numbers of pilots on furlough.
Since there is wording in the press release that sounds like maybe more will be recalled, then perhaps that is part of what UA was able to do to help obtain an agreement.
Rumors are pay very close to DL's levels w/ no erosion of job protection in return for the company getting large RJs. If those are all true, plus furloughs are being cleaned up, then the chances are pretty good this will get passed and alot of UA/CO pilots will be getting some large pay raises.
Now UA has to convince Wall Street they can pay for it.
UA ALPA continues to say that there are significant numbers of pilots on furlough.
Since there is wording in the press release that sounds like maybe more will be recalled, then perhaps that is part of what UA was able to do to help obtain an agreement.
Rumors are pay very close to DL's levels w/ no erosion of job protection in return for the company getting large RJs. If those are all true, plus furloughs are being cleaned up, then the chances are pretty good this will get passed and alot of UA/CO pilots will be getting some large pay raises.
Now UA has to convince Wall Street they can pay for it.
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