Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[prechilill]

I'll do just fine when this airline finally implodes.
Bob

???
Implodes? I thought the east was a big money maker?

Regards,

P

 

[767one]

???
Implodes? I thought the east was a big money maker?

Regards,

P

Sorry you misunderstood or I did not make myself clear. I was responding to OJ's post about this ariline going away. My personal opinion is that this place will be around so long that the last cockroach on earth will starve to death on one of our aircraft but if it goes away it goes away........it will be sad but not life threatening.


Bob

 

[prechilill]

My personal opinion is that this place will be around so long that the last cockroach on earth will starve to death on one of our aircraft

Bob

😀 Now that is funny! And I agree, Wall Street will keep this baby alive just by continuously flipping it into greater and greater debt oblivion. If this domino does fall, let it fall is what I say!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I won't say everytime but several months ago I flew a flight to PHX out of PHL several times a week and we would leave PHL early get the tactical cost index message, be slowed down and s-turned for the last 300 miles, get on the ground early and then wait for a gate until the flight was late. More than likely that same flight is still late most of the time.


Regards,


Bob

They way clubby phrased his post indicated that he was talking about every flight he makes. I even said "If I understand ..." and got no clarification that he was only talking about one flight number on one route. That's why I questioned the his "every time". We both know that there are certain flights where one has to work to be late landing unless unusual delays are encountered - CLT-TPA landing south and CLT-JAX come immediately to mind because of the way the flight plan was filed. So when I understood him to mean every flight he flew every time he flew and didn't get clarification otherwise, I assumed (and still do) that that's exactly what he was claiming and hence my "overstatement" comment.

Seems like at the last crew news (PHX maybe?) someone asked about this exact thing happening regularly on one of the PHX morning pushes and there was some discussion about why it was happening and what the company was doing to alleviate the situation. But my question would naturally be - "If this was happening months ago, does it explain the apparent increase in taxi times starting on May 1?" That's what Lee's data shows, unrebutted by USAPA. So airplanes which had had few problems, CLT construction was non-existent for over a year, rampers that had been on their toes, etc - all that changed overnight between April 30 and May 1?

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

Sorry you misunderstood or I did not make myself clear. I was responding to OJ's post about this ariline going away. My personal opinion is that this place will be around so long that the last cockroach on earth will starve to death on one of our aircraft but if it goes away it goes away........it will be sad but not life threatening.


Bob

The choke collar being fashioned in the Western District of North Carolina will get the inmates under control.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The choke collar being fashioned in the Western District of North Carolina will get the inmates under control.

I don't think anything much will change injunction or not. The few loose cannons that may have been writing up a lumpy seat or something might stop. The maint. issues I dont think will change until it does from home office. Broken stuff is still broken stuff. Repeated resets won't fix the problem.

The screwball scheduling that causes many delays on a daily basis is a mgmt. issue, injunction wont help that either. Last month and next 2 months they are doing voulentary leaves. Never mind the fact that coverage is so short you get 3 calls a day on your days off. Had a 321 a while back that was scheduled for a crew swap and full loads in and out....scheduled ground time was 32 minutes. You could not get 183 off and 183 on that thing with a cattleprod in 32 minutes! Not to mention the one a while back that did an unscheduled aircraft swap, took us off a good airplane and moved us to a plane that was running 45 mins late and gave our aircraft to a crew that was....you guessed it...not due in for another 50 minutes. End result, both flights delayed for over an hour instead of just one. Or the ever lovely no ramp crew present due to one ramp crew being scheduled to push 2 airplanes within 5 mins of each other. No way both of them are going to get an on time. Same issue with gate agents, cannot count how many times you get to gate and sit there 15 mins waiting on an agent to bring the jetway to aircraft. Not the agents fault, he/she was on another gate with caddleprod trying to cram slowmoving pax into another one at your arrival time.

The simple fact is a large amount of the delays are directly related to staffing (Pilots, gate, ramp etc) and fleet mgmt.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You're not seeing the forest from the trees. I'll give you a hint: leverage.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You're not seeing the forest from the trees. I'll give you a hint: leverage.

Yeah, well you know just as well as I do that we are not going to see a contract here for a long time. DOH won't fly and NIC won't fly and Mgmt. is not going to change it's ways.

Other than a few hard core east and west folks most have just accepted it. The over 60 and close to 60 guys are just counting their days till they can go sip mixed drinks on the beach, the younger guys figure there is no reason to even consider taking anythig with NIC in it since it will effectivly lock them in the seat they are in now till retirement (Barring any growth...yeah right!) so in the long run they are better off as it is now with retirement movement coming. And the newhires...well they know the age 60 5 year attrition stop is coming to an end next year and with our current state of pay, bennies and slow movement I bet mgmt. is going to have one hell of a time keeping the new ones they have and finding decent ones in the future as soon as all the airlines start hiring as their boys hit 65.

So looking at all the things that are going on here I don't see that mgmt. is going to have much leverage from an injunction either. The work groups have been beaten on so much nobody really cares. Go to work, fly a safe trip, collect paycheck. If this place implodes I will take one of my Heavy types and international experience from my previous life and go back to hauling rubber dogs%^t out of Hong Kong for higer pay and probably more time off! 🙂

The current issues will be fixed in time, retirements will eventually get rid of the seniority issues that arise with both DOH and NIC if the place does not pull an Eastern before then.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nic will fly. Just a matter of time.

 

[767one]

I don't think anything much will change injunction or not. The few loose cannons that may have been writing up a lumpy seat or something might stop. The maint. issues I dont think will change until it does from home office. Broken stuff is still broken stuff. Repeated resets won't fix the problem.

The screwball scheduling that causes many delays on a daily basis is a mgmt. issue, injunction wont help that either. Last month and next 2 months they are doing voulentary leaves. Never mind the fact that coverage is so short you get 3 calls a day on your days off. Had a 321 a while back that was scheduled for a crew swap and full loads in and out....scheduled ground time was 32 minutes. You could not get 183 off and 183 on that thing with a cattleprod in 32 minutes! Not to mention the one a while back that did an unscheduled aircraft swap, took us off a good airplane and moved us to a plane that was running 45 mins late and gave our aircraft to a crew that was....you guessed it...not due in for another 50 minutes. End result, both flights delayed for over an hour instead of just one. Or the ever lovely no ramp crew present due to one ramp crew being scheduled to push 2 airplanes within 5 mins of each other. No way both of them are going to get an on time. Same issue with gate agents, cannot count how many times you get to gate and sit there 15 mins waiting on an agent to bring the jetway to aircraft. Not the agents fault, he/she was on another gate with caddleprod trying to cram slowmoving pax into another one at your arrival time.

The simple fact is a large amount of the delays are directly related to staffing (Pilots, gate, ramp etc) and fleet mgmt.

Very good explanation of what is going on here.


Bob

 

[Pi brat]

Quick, someone get this to the Judge in CLT! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Airways-Reports-Record-bw-1191953354.html?x=0&.v=1

Record load factor and PRASM up about 9%. Damn pilots are running this thing into the ground! Now, if they can just kind a way to pin the hurricane on us....................

 

[mrbreeze]

I don't think anything much will change injunction or not. The few loose cannons that may have been writing up a lumpy seat or something might stop. The maint. issues I dont think will change until it does from home office. Broken stuff is still broken stuff. Repeated resets won't fix the problem.

The screwball scheduling that causes many delays on a daily basis is a mgmt. issue, injunction wont help that either. Last month and next 2 months they are doing voulentary leaves. Never mind the fact that coverage is so short you get 3 calls a day on your days off. Had a 321 a while back that was scheduled for a crew swap and full loads in and out....scheduled ground time was 32 minutes. You could not get 183 off and 183 on that thing with a cattleprod in 32 minutes! Not to mention the one a while back that did an unscheduled aircraft swap, took us off a good airplane and moved us to a plane that was running 45 mins late and gave our aircraft to a crew that was....you guessed it...not due in for another 50 minutes. End result, both flights delayed for over an hour instead of just one. Or the ever lovely no ramp crew present due to one ramp crew being scheduled to push 2 airplanes within 5 mins of each other. No way both of them are going to get an on time. Same issue with gate agents, cannot count how many times you get to gate and sit there 15 mins waiting on an agent to bring the jetway to aircraft. Not the agents fault, he/she was on another gate with caddleprod trying to cram slowmoving pax into another one at your arrival time.

The simple fact is a large amount of the delays are directly related to staffing (Pilots, gate, ramp etc) and fleet mgmt.

good post.......good description of the east operation

This kind of operation may work at a regional airline in PHX, where the weather is good most of the time, but when you try to apply it to a company that has tripled in size, with operations on the east coast, and trans-Atlantic flying, it falls apart.

The only way Doug and crew is able to claim that they are doing an excellent job is the excellent screwing they are giving the employees in the east operation. It will end soon, one way or another.

breeze

 

[aquagreen73s]

So looking at all the things that are going on here I don't see that mgmt. is going to have much leverage from an injunction either.

With your logic, it's business as usual when a loaded gun is pointed at your head. No harm so long as the trigger isn't pulled and in that very very narrow and naive context, you're right.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Quick, someone get this to the Judge in CLT! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Airways-Reports-Record-bw-1191953354.html?x=0&.v=1

Record load factor and PRASM up about 9%. Damn pilots are running this thing into the ground! Now, if they can just kind a way to pin the hurricane on us....................

Didn't Management's announcement to employees state that even they didn't think all pilots or even all east pilots were involved in the work slowdown? I'm not going to go back and look, but I thought even you admitted that you thought some pilots had engaged in slowdown tactics and also that you expected judge Conrad to rule in Management's favor. If not, please forgive me for not remembering correctly.

At any rate, do you now think Management just invented the slowdown statistics? Do you think they sent letters to USAPA and filed this case in district court because they were bored and wanted an excuse to spend more time in CLT? Is it all a Management ploy or do they have a valid reason for asking for injunctive relief against USAPA, in your opinion?

 

[Pi brat]

Didn't Management's announcement to employees state that even they didn't think all pilots or even all east pilots were involved in the work slowdown? I'm not going to go back and look, but I thought even you admitted that you thought some pilots had engaged in slowdown tactics and also that you expected judge Conrad to rule in Management's favor. If not, please forgive me for not remembering correctly.

At any rate, do you now think Management just invented the slowdown statistics? Do you think they sent letters to USAPA and filed this case in district court because they were bored and wanted an excuse to spend more time in CLT? Is it all a Management ploy or do they have a valid reason for asking for injunctive relief against USAPA, in your opinion?

I think there was a grass roots movement of a certain number of pilots that were already not doing the most they could for the company that decided to use the safety concerns of USAPA to put the screws to the company. I have no idea how big that number of pilots was, but I don't think it was as big as the company said. I've seem too much screwed up in our operation that has nothing to do with pilots that I think the company decided to throw into the "it's pilots fault!" pot.

I have no problem with the company asking us to do our job as we are supposed to, but I believe the injunction request goes too far. The company has all the tools it needs to handle what was going on without running to the courts. They should have used those tools instead of blaming everything on the pilots, and publicly labeling the pilots with an "illegal job action". In doing so, I believe they are ignoring valid safety concerns. Not that anyone, management or pilots, is trying to be unsafe, but the current rift is reducing our safety margin. It's never good to not listen to one another, no matter who's fault the initial problem was. I suggested the company call a time out, acknowledge that our current relationship is not healthy,and reach out to the pilots to try and heal it. They are not interested. They would rather try to beat it into, or out of, us. We'll see how it turns out.