The Call

[Garfield1966]

Civil union (the new marriage) will work just as it does not only all humans of legal age will be able to miserable and get divorced, not just male/female. As for the ramifications, who cares. Not like it has anything to do with the end of the world. Just one more contract between two individuals.

I think you are missing my point about sexual devices. What I am saying is if the CA law takes hold and the religious term of marriage is removed from the law books to be replaced with the term civil union, then the term marriage that religion holds so dear will loose all of it's current legal protections. I will be able to start up the Church of Garfield, define the terms of marriage how ever I see fit, and conduct those marriages between whom ever I choose how ever I choose. Since government cannot tell me how to run my church, I can do as I want. Anyone who gets married in my church can say they are married. That is why I said that religion should accept same sex marriage because if religion looses government control over marriage, it's all over.

US law is bases on precedents. If we allow the CA prop to stand, then what is to stop a different state from following majority tyranny and abolishing someone else rights? Not sure what the likelihood of that out come would be, I hope about as likely as the government come to take all the guns away but I would rather be paranoid than looking back and thinking ... damn..... never saw that one coming.

 

[tech2101]

"Iowa" didn't do the right thing -- their Supreme Court simply said the legislation in place wasn't in line with their state constitution.

It's the same as happened in CA and led to Prop 108. As has happened time and time again, a ballot initiative or constitutional amendment can change things the other way. It's easy to sue against a law which is unconstitutional, but it's a lot harder to sue and say the constitution is unconstitutional

29 states have constitutional amendments restricting marriage to one man and one woman.


Vermont's governor has said today he will veto their gay marriage bill when it arrives on his desk, so don't start calling up the caterer just yet.

You are quite correct Eric. That one was an easy one for the Iowa Supreme Court to decide. In my current class, we were asked to do a case study on this decision. I did not know Iowa was so progressive when it came to giving rights (recognizing rights) to classes of people throughout our history.

 

[Garfield1966]

I am not so much asking for religion to admit they are wrong (their views are opinions and therefore cannot be "wrong") but they could just accept that ideals and laws change over time and not contest it as much as they do.

I dissagree with the right v choice statement. While marriage is not outlined in the USSC as a right, Every person in the US does have the right to be treated equally under the law. If you can buy a house in a neighborhood, I too have the right to buy a home in that neighborhood as ling as I have the financial resources to do so. The law cannot discriminate against me because of my gender, race or religion. In other words, all people should have the Right to make that Choice.

 

[tech2101]

... Every person in the US does have the right to be treated equally under the law. If you can buy a house in a neighborhood, I too have the right to buy a home in that neighborhood as ling as I have the financial resources to do so. The law cannot discriminate against me because of my gender, race or religion. In other words, all people should have the Right to make that Choice.

And they agreed with you in the Iowa case as it pertains to same sex marriage.

The Iowa Constitution is rock solid in that respect, and stare decisis reigned.

Also, the United States Constitution does have Supremacy over state law.

The only option Iowans have at this point is to change their [State] constitution, then have that challenged again at the Supreme Court.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Vermont's governor has said today he will veto their gay marriage bill when it arrives on his desk, so don't start calling up the caterer just yet.

Vermont's House and Senate voted to overide the Governor's veto.

Vermont Becomes Fourth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

 

[Gilding the Lily]

And apparently the D.C. Council voted today to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states.

 

[Garfield1966]

The ball is rolling. I guess the Christian right better get the heck out of the way or they are going to get squashed.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

[

Piney, you stated that "organized religion can not just up and say "opps we made a mistake..."

The Mormon Church was a major money backer in the Prop 8 in California. They have a tendency to marry old men with many, and I mean many, many, many younger women. The founder of this "revered" church was married to 28 wives. When he was killed, basically for not following up on his promises, his closest associate, Bringham Young had 55 wives. They created this paradise on earth by promising salvation by also killing 153 innocent men, women and children, known as the Mountain Meadow's Massacre. When the Utah state needed to be admitted to the Union, what did this church do since polygamy was illegal? They said, "oops, we made a mistake" no more polygamy.

The saint of all saints, Joseph Smith also stated that black people were the curse "of Cain." In other words, good ol' Joseph didn't like blacks and excluded them until 1979 when the church went..."opps, we made a mistake." Black men, (heaven forbid not women) are now allowed in the preisthood.

Tired of the Mormon's, let's try Catholics. Too many "opps" moment's to count. Go to Wikipedia and type in "Apologies by Pope John Paul II" Runs the whole gamut from Spain's treatment of the America's in the 1500's, to women, to burning people at the stake, etc. opps, opps opps, opps.

Want to leave the Catholic's and try some Protestant's? Jimmy Swaggart found in a cheap motel in Lousiana with a cheaper whore, "opps", Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jessica Hahn was a big "opps". Jerry Falwell, the founder of the so called, "Moral Majority" was mortified that people were actually trying to stop apartheid in South Africa and told his follower's to support the white back government of South Africa and buy the gold Kruggerads. He had to apologize, or say "opps" after 9/11 when he blamed the attacks on gays, feminist's, etc, for causing the attacks.


Piney stated that "all people have the same right" and Marriage is choice and not a right."

Fine, let's take DOMA, the defense of marriage act and make Divorce Illegal. 50% of all straight married people would be illegal. 1 out 2 marriage's fail and end in divorce. Make divorce illegal, you get what you get and heaven forbid if you stray.

If you want to deny me a right, fine, I don't want to pay taxes, I don't want to follow your law's and regulations. If I want to drive drunk late let me be. When I die, don't ask for my estate taxes and make sure that none of my taxes fix your roads, build your schools or buy guns to fortify the army.

Fortunatley, I along with 99% Gay and Lesbian American's follow the rules but are quietly and with firmness overcoming bigotry in the likes of the people who can not think for themselves, which includes you.

1500 years ago it was a known fact that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, it was a known fact that the Earth was flat. In 15 minutes we may well know we are not alone.

In the 1600's to 1865, African American's were held as slave's. From 1896 to 1965. African Americans were bound by Plessy v Ferguson to endure to live in a "separate but equal" society. In 2008. America elected an African American President.

Up until the 1960's the American Psych Assoc. deemded Homosexuality as abnormal. Since then, gay men and lesbians have fought inch for inch for their rights and regardless of what Miss America, Jerry Falwell or Piney bob says. within 25years , people will know that it's wrong to discriminate based on some preconcieved notition. In 2, 20 or 30 years, we will hear a "opps" from Piney Bob.

When two men are legally married in Mississippi and no the gleicmstibigotry extorted by ual tech, and these 2 committed men are before god and their friends and family to live in peace and serve God, the world will not end just as by intergrating the south did not end the world and just as by giving women the vote did not end the world.

 

[delldude]

Also, the United States Constitution does have Supremacy over state law.

That's because it was created by the existing State people....who later created the Federal Government.
You can have a Constitution without a Federal Government.


BTW-marriage is a vow before God to join an Man and a Woman with one of the end results of procreation.Not sexual pleasure.

 

[Garfield1966]

That's because it was created by the existing State people....who later created the Federal Government.
You can have a Constitution without a Federal Government.


BTW-marriage is a vow before God to join an Man and a Woman with one of the end results of procreation.Not sexual pleasure.

If that is the case then there should be no problem taking marriage out of the public forum and making all legal contracts the jurisdiction of government only and religion can be the jurisdiction of religion.

Since I do not believe in god does that mean I am not married to my wife? I do have a certificate from the state that says "marriage license" on it and not Civil Union Contract. As I told UAL, be careful what you wish for. Right now, the only protection marriage has is state government. When that goes away, anyone can interpret marriage any way they see fit.

As for sex, it is not just for procreation. Were that the case, the human male would be able to detect when the human female is in heat and would only have sex at that time. Given that humans can have sex at anytime and that procreation can take place out side of marriage (humans have been around procreating far longer than the existence of religion) religion is wrong on both accounts.

 

[UAL_TECH]

You for got the Crusades, Johnstown Massacre and David Koresh WACO (Just trying to help out…).

Is this right? Of course not! Would any sentient human being justify these actions and atrocities? (Apparently some)

Did any of these atrocities adhere to the teachings of Christianity? Of course not!

Conversely, how many of the ‘good’ actions by Christianity are not as publicized? With the exception of Mother Teresa, not too many but many people go out and do good works for humanity daily.

Lemmings will follow any thing or person greater than themselves (mostly perceptually and often due to inadequacy) and do not take the time or effort to think for themselves or actually read the New Testament.

So to put things into perspective, how many atrocities were performed by non-religious ->SEE HERE<- for a start?


Good, now that we have your ‘hate’ for Christianity out of the way, let’s move on.

Fine, let's take DOMA, the defense of marriage act and make Divorce Illegal. 50% of all straight married people would be illegal. 1 out 2 marriage's fail and end in divorce. Make divorce illegal, you get what you get and heaven forbid if you stray.

What does this have to do with it? Grasping for straws?

If you want to deny me a right, fine, I don't want to pay taxes, I don't want to follow your law's and regulations. If I want to drive drunk late let me be. When I die, don't ask for my estate taxes and make sure that none of my taxes fix your roads, build your schools or buy guns to fortify the army.

Fine, don’t pay them. But it still has nothing to do with the issue. The Gooberment does a lot of stuff that perturbs me but I know if I don’t pay my taxes, I live on the street getting Gooberment cheese.

Fortunatley, I along with 99% Gay and Lesbian American's follow the rules but are quietly and with firmness overcoming bigotry in the likes of the people who can not think for themselves, which includes you.

Interesting analogy, so people whom do not believe in your little center of the world becomes bigots and can not think for themselves. But of course you can because you are all wise and knowing.

1500 years ago it was a known fact that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, it was a known fact that the Earth was flat. In 15 minutes we may well know we are not alone.

In the 1600's to 1865, African American's were held as slave's. From 1896 to 1965. African Americans were bound by Plessy v Ferguson to endure to live in a "separate but equal" society. In 2008. America elected an African American President.

View attachment 8348

Up until the 1960's the American Psych Assoc. deemded Homosexuality as abnormal. Since then, gay men and lesbians have fought inch for inch for their rights and regardless of what Miss America, Jerry Falwell or Piney bob says. within 25years , people will know that it's wrong to discriminate based on some preconcieved notition. In 2, 20 or 30 years, we will hear a "opps" from Piney Bob.

I doubt it because you apparently have not been reading this thread much at all.

When two men are legally married in Mississippi and no the gleicmstibigotry extorted by ual tech, and these 2 committed men are before god and their friends and family to live in peace and serve God, the world will not end just as by intergrating the south did not end the world and just as by giving women the vote did not end the world.

Individual choice of sexual desires does not make an ethnicity or sex. The GLBTQ..XYZ is playing on this terminology of ‘somehow’ sexual desires compares to the racism and sexism that both the black and women have overcome. No doubt that this ‘guilt transference’ method works, but it is what it is.

B) xUT

 

[UAL_TECH]

Civil union (the new marriage) will work just as it does not only all humans of legal age will be able to miserable and get divorced, not just male/female.

FYI, ‘Civil Unions’ have been around for quite awhile, but this issue isn’t a discussion on this. The GBLTQ…XYZ does not want a Civil Union, if they did then this would be a non-issue as it is a strictly Gooberment decision.

As for the ramifications, who cares.

Most ‘sentient’ Human Beings do. Homosexual or not. Your ignorance of the issue is astounding even though you have a myopic view of the situation. Even if I were to take ‘all’ of my Christian beliefs out of this debate, the box is still open and subject to further ‘modification’.

Not like it has anything to do with the end of the world. Just one more contract between two individuals.

Yea, that is probably why we ‘humans’ are faced with the problems we have today. This single sentence is the epitome of Merican thinking.

I think you are missing my point about sexual devices. What I am saying is if the CA law takes hold and the religious term of marriage is removed from the law books to be replaced with the term civil union, then the term marriage that religion holds so dear will loose all of it's current legal protections. I will be able to start up the Church of Garfield, define the terms of marriage how ever I see fit, and conduct those marriages between whom ever I choose how ever I choose. Since government cannot tell me how to run my church, I can do as I want. Anyone who gets married in my church can say they are married. That is why I said that religion should accept same sex marriage because if religion looses government control over marriage, it's all over.

Get out of the house once in awhile. The definition of a ‘Church’ has been obfuscated for a very long time. Sorry but the Church of Garfield has been taken.

US law is bases on precedents. If we allow the CA prop to stand, then what is to stop a different state from following majority tyranny and abolishing someone else rights? Not sure what the likelihood of that out come would be, I hope about as likely as the government come to take all the guns away but I would rather be paranoid than looking back and thinking ... damn..... never saw that one coming.

All of you knuckleheads love to site law as precedence (especially if it’ in your favor) even though law has accomplished more against the human condition than any other ‘religion’ ever could.

Laws, like our immigration laws that are ignored.

B) xUT

 

[UAL_TECH]

I am not so much asking for religion to admit they are wrong (their views are opinions and therefore cannot be "wrong") but they could just accept that ideals and laws change over time and not contest it as much as they do.

Thinking from a small mind. ‘I am right you are wrong’ end of discussion. 🙄

Yea, Christians are self centered, closed minded, pious people, unlike great thinkers such as yourself…

B) xUT

 

[UAL_TECH]

You thought Smoking was bad....Look ->HERE<-... 😛h34r:

 

[tech2101]

Thinking from a small mind. ‘I am right you are wrong’ end of discussion. 🙄

Yea, Christians are self centered, closed minded, pious people, unlike great thinkers such as yourself…

B) xUT

Tech.

This is not about religion.

It is about a law passed in Iowa that violated the Iowa constitution.

I encourage you to read the decision.

Here is one reaction from a community:

The reaction of the religious community is not uniform. The Omaha World Herald has
substantial readership in western Iowa, so the paper has been covering the decision.
I have attached a copy of an article that ran in the Omaha World Herald on
April 4th.

Here it is.