The Problem

[USA320Pilot]

The Amazing JetBlue

While most airlines are struggling, JetBlue seems poised for a rapid ascent

NEW YORK (Fortune) - Just as JetBlue flight 389 comes to a complete stop, crew member David Neeleman unsnaps his seatbelt, jumps to his feet, and cracks a smile. "Have a great vacation and thanks for flying with us," he cheerily tells a New York couple who've taken the 8:20 a.m. to Fort Lauderdale to set out on a weeklong cruise.

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Southwest Airlines: The Hottest Thing in the Sky

Through change at the top, through 9/11, in a lousy industry, it keeps winning Most Admired kudos. How?

NEW YORK (Fortune) - It's a little strange how some folks still think about the airline business. There are the big players, they'll tell you, like Delta, United, and American. And then you have the smaller fish. The low-cost carriers, led by that wacky Southwest Airlines, which they mention almost as an afterthought.

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Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[mwereplanes]

I tried to fly JetBlue to Europe. No luck.

I tried to fly Southwest to Asia. No luck.

I tried to persuade the union to demand a replacement for Siegel so we could find someone who know there is more to running an airline than CASM. No luck.

I won't even try to ease the fear of A320pilot who keeps stating the obvious in hopes of allowing said management to continue to run the airline into the ground.

Fear is an amazing thing. It clouds the real problem.

mr

 

[Dilligas]

<snip>
Fear is an amazing thing. It clouds the real problem.

Amen.

The real problems at U are internal and the focus should also be internal.

Jet Blue and Southwest are intelligently run corporations and utilize leadership and the talents of their "crew members" to empower people. Generally that leads to positive attitudes, going the extra mile, and a sense of pride in their company.

All this misdirection is designed to buy a bit more time and remove the onus from those that bear responsibility.

How anyone that is a shill for this bumbling crowd can sleep at night escapes me.

 

[tim]

Fear is an amazing thing. It clouds the real problem.

mr

Yes it is. There are posters on here overflowing and bubbling over with it calling for more givebacks. If they came back every month forever there would be posters saying that's ok whatever it takes. Everyone knows these posters by name and how sorry a sight it is to see people without spirit or courage letting someone else decide their futures.

Jesus is the man, but Bronner is JUST a man. Something the pilots need to learn.

 

[delldude]

saw mention in the local paper comparing bronner to jesus...wow......read an old,old text over the years that refered to being cautious around silver tongued devils......
you guys think bronner's jesus...just wait till you meet the anti-christ....

 

[N628AU]

There is no doubt in my mind that this company needs to be on a level to compete with Southwest and JetBlue, but they will never get the revenue we can obtain. Management has ways to reduce CASM immediately, and has not implemented them, inluding increasing aircraft utilization and rolling the PHL hub. What WN and B6 cannot due:

(1) Fly TransAtlantic.

(2) Fly into many and mid size cities.

(3) Go almost anywhere worldwide via the Star Alliance.

(4) Provide offline travel during irregular operations. Did anyone see that episode of Airline when the WN MDW-FLL was oversold by 53 and those cruise passengers where getting bumped? What if some of those where not cruises, but business travellers out to close multi-million dollar deals?

What is most troubling to me about "The Problem" as it is put here, is that "The Plan" seems to be in limbo. For weeks, we heard about it, and now the pilots are going to management to help create it? Does this mean there is no plan? We are nearly 30 days into that critical "30-90 day window", and nothing seems to be getting done exceot talking about talking.

 

[openview]

jetblue is new and innovative. It isn't sadled with years worth of contract language and uncompetitive work rules. Add to that: Its employees are at the low end of the moving scale of pay; while US's employees are predominately at the upper end; its employees are at the lower end of the sliding range of sick days; US is at the top; JB is at the low end of the sliding scale of vacation days; US is near the high end, etc. on and on. US will never compete unless it truly gets rid of the innefficient contract language. Its not about pay. Its about the million and one side agreements and clauses inside the one inch thick labor contracts.

 

[delldude]

jetblue is new and innovative. It isn't sadled with years worth of contract language and uncompetitive work rules. Add to that: Its employees are at the low end of the moving scale of pay; while US's employees are predominately at the upper end; its employees are at the lower end of the sliding range of sick days; US is at the top; JB is at the low end of the sliding scale of vacation days; US is near the high end, etc. on and on. US will never compete unless it truly gets rid of the innefficient contract language. Its not about pay. Its about the million and one side agreements and clauses inside the one inch thick labor contracts.

IAM-1/2 inch thick...

 

[repeet]

N628AU
Posted on Feb 25 2004, 09:48 AM

What is most troubling to me about "The Problem" as it is put here, is that "The Plan" seems to be in limbo. For weeks, we heard about it, and now the pilots are going to management to help create it?

Correct.

The Plan, to those who watch, is no secret

1) Destroy moral and comradarie.

2) Undermine Union authority.

3) Extract as much compensation as possible from all labor groups.

Yes, "the Pilots are now going to management to help create it".

 

[Doc]

The Amazing JetBlue

While most airlines are struggling, JetBlue seems poised for a rapid ascent


Southwest Airlines: The Hottest Thing in the Sky


Regards,

USA320Pilot

USA320PILOT,

who in the... HE... double toothpicks are you..This stuff belongs on another forum if you have a life put it there please........OMG

 

[BoeingBoy]

Doc,

The JetBlue article was pretty interesting. A good chunk of it dealt with Neeleman's management "style" - he rides the airplanes at least twice per week dressed in the standard employee "uniform". He helps check in passengers, serve onboard, pick up trash after the flight, load/unload bags, etc. Quite a difference from what we see here - if they're on the airplane at all, it's in a f/c seat enjoying the perks.

Unfortunately, the WN article lead me to a sign-in page.

Seeing what other carriers are doing right (or wrong) helps me evaluate our situation here. The unfortunate part is that our management usually suffers by the comparison.

Jim

 

[funguy2]

Raekesh Gangwal (pardon my spelling) become infamous for admitting their was no "Plan B"

No body at CCY will tell you that there is also no "Plan A"

I submit to you, if "Plan A" is to focus on creating a hybrid point-to-point and hub-and-spoke airline, why was the hybrid airline that was US Airways dismantled in the first place?

You see, up until about a year and a half ago, US Airways had quite a hybrid network. Over time, the point-to-point network was dismantled. What remained was "Expressed"

Now, with that failing, executives say, "lets adopt the successful hybrid model of AirTran, ATA, America West, Frontier, and JetBlue!"

The problem is, the natural first markets for such a plan have already been soaked up by somebody else... Let's just look at a few parts of US Airways' point-to-point service:

LGA-BUF - relegated to DH8 and ERJ equipment, unable to compete with JetBlue's A320's from JFK.

BOS-BWI - US Airways replaced by AirTran and American Eagle

IND-LGA - US Airways uses ERJs vs. ATA's 737-800's

So what point-to-point markets are available to US Airways? Not many. When US Airways abandoned its original point-to-point network, the competition moved in. US Airways will have an extremely difficult time taking back market share from the likes of AirTran, Southwest, and JetBlue.

It seems to me that "the plan" of focusing on the hubs, which was supposed to guide the airline through bankruptcy and into recovery has failed. Now the airline wants to resurrect what it dismantled in the face of new competition from LCC's at every move.

US Airways cannot go "Back to the Future"... The Future has already changed.

Sorry, I have a hard time thinking this will work.

 

[mrman]

(2) Fly into many and mid size cities.

What?

Southwest flys to many "midsize" cities. Most are now flown by the legacy with RJ's vs 737 Many examples include Albany, Amarillo, Austin, Birmingham, Boise, Buffalo, Corpus.......

Don't forget WN now carries more passengers domestically than any other airline

 

[RedOne]

Its employees are at the low end of the moving scale of pay; while US's employees are predominately at the upper end; its employees are at the lower end of the sliding range of sick days; US is at the top; JB is at the low end of the sliding scale of vacation days; US is near the high end, etc. on and on. US will never compete unless it truly gets rid of the innefficient contract language. Its not about pay. Its about the million and one side agreements and clauses inside the one inch thick labor contracts.

I couldn't help but respond.
1. lYes, we employees are at the "top" of the scale. This company has a lot of employees who have dedicated themselves to this business. Unfortunately, all the junior people have been furloughed. I've got 30 + years in.... offer me retirement without penalties and see how fast some move up the pole one knotch!
2. Sick Days. This doesnt really matter. I have the max # (about 175 days) in the sick bank...but with the way Company policies are now if one calls in sick they are put on a "level". Another form of harassing in my book when you have someone who has shown this much loyalty. Oh, and when I do leave the company, I will give them a "gift" of those 175 days....they can't be used towards early retirement.
3. Contract language? I'm an agent. My contract pretty much lets them do anything with/to me they want to. They can utilize me in both C/S and F/S...they choose not to. .
...
Bottom word in my book? The problem is not with the word employee....or with the word contract....it is with the word management.

 

[Mike W]

The plan.... You're seeing the plan. Wage and benefit cuts. I don't understand why anyone is surprised.