US Airways cutting 52 employees at IND

CallawayGolf

Veteran
Nov 13, 2009
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"Blessed are the meek."

Cancel your tee time tomorrow morning.
Indeed. That is an excellent outlook on life. Knowing that true rewards do not come in this lifetime makes one appreciate the things he has more and to live with much more peace knowing the true blessings which are to come. Plus there is no substitute for having a positive attitude in life.

No tee times for me. The ground is frozen and I will be much more likely to be shoveling snow off the driveway than to be driving a ball into the fairway. I don't play golf on Sundays anyway; way too involved in church to worry about getting the clubs out.
 

Dog Wonder

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Jan 1, 2004
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Hope you start paying attention.

When the preacher tells you he can fit a camel through the eye of a needle, stop giving him money.
 

john john

Veteran
Contributor
Sep 12, 2004
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The paying people not to work was a reference to unemployment and welfare,
And who is responsible for this action at IND. let me guess it is the good employees of USAirways who came to work at Indianapolis International Airport and didn’t work hard enough and were paid too much
YEP

It is all the front line workers and union’s fault that the company had to shut down the ramp in IND all because the employees didn’t work hard enough and were paid too much
 
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CallawayGolf

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Nov 13, 2009
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And who is responsible for this action at IND. let me guess it is the good employees of USAirways who came to work at Indianapolis International Airport and didn’t work hard enough and were paid too much
YEP

It is all the front line workers and union’s fault that the company had to shut down the ramp in IND all because the employees didn’t work hard enough and were paid too much
So there was no one willing to do the jobs for less than the union rates? The free market provided no laborers willing and able to provide the same services for less? If the answer is yes, the the company will have to increase pay until someone takes the job. If the answer is no, then the company made a good decision because the union rates were higher than the free market rates. Free market principles at work which usually results in fewer union jobs as they price themselves out of gainful employment.
 

CallawayGolf

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Nov 13, 2009
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I'd be willing to bet that the union pay rate was used as a benchmark for non union employees...
And I would be wiling to bet that HR sets pay rates and scales based on comparable jobs in the marketplace with little concern for what the union cartels would demand through federally sponsored extortion.
 

Black Magic

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Jan 4, 2008
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Delta's ramp is non-union and I believe they are paid more than US Airways IAM represented rampers. Callaway please explain that one
 

UPNAWAY

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The vast majority of unions must have an adversarial relationship these days to keep the sheeple in line. Otherwise the rank and file may question why all the union seems to do is support socialist politicians and anti worker policies.
 

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
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Really? Show us proof, of unions support socialist candidates, in my 20 years in a union, they have never endorsed a socialist candidate as its a fringe party.

Funny the unions at US gave concessions prior to bankruptcy to save the company and then three times in bankruptcy, yep sure adversarial.

Your lack of knowledge and your Fox News talking points arent working.

Guess you dont realize what an HPWO is and how many unions have saved companies from the brink of disaster.
 
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UPNAWAY

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You are a not paying attention than. Not been watching the OSW movement which is not only socialist but communist and certainly anti-jobs and unions have been right there with them leading the charge. They supported Obama the most job killing POTUS in US history despite his close ties and upbringing surrounded by socialist and communist. Your a fool if you think the modern union political movement is a friend of workers or Americans at all. Why have unions become the single biggest environmentalist in the US next to the far left wackos? Deep seeded concern for the planet? No of course not, they take positions diametrically opposed to their memberships best interest for political purposes only!
Baa, baa, baa!
Pay your dues, march when they tell you , chant your slogans that rhyme and otherwise keep your head in the sand.
What is it like to be an adult that has never thought for yourself?
 

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
37,637
19,488
NC
Wow, nice insults.

Sorry no one ever thinks for me or thought, I am a leader not a follower, and why is it ok for the airlines to belong to a union "ATA" and Doug and his band of thieves have contracts, so why is it so wrong for the workers to have that too?

Why dont you explain how WN who has been profitable for over 30 years straight, has the highest paid employees in the industry and they are the highest percentage of unionized workers than any other airline?
 
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SparrowHawk

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Nov 30, 2009
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Wow, nice insults.

Sorry no one ever thinks for me or thought, I am a leader not a follower, and why is it ok for the airlines to belong to a union "ATA" and Doug and his band of thieves have contracts, so why is it so wrong for the workers to have that too?

Why dont you explain how WN who has been profitable for over 30 years straight, has the highest paid employees in the industry and they are the highest percentage of unionized workers than any other airline?

Hey Buddy, Give it up! UPNAWAY has got Parker Punch Poisoning. Once you contract the disease you become as bright as a bag of hammers. Be well. Greetings from Sioux Falls, SD
 

CallawayGolf

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Nov 13, 2009
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Delta's ramp is non-union and I believe they are paid more than US Airways IAM represented rampers. Callaway please explain that one
Delta and it's non-represented employees are free to make whatever decisions they like and which makes sense for the business. However the real force behind Delta's rate likely has very little to do with a free-market wage rate. Instead the rates are based on the fact that Delta's employees, which were integrated with NW employees who were once in a labor cartel (government-endorsed extortion scheme) are probably very close to having enough vote to return a unionized workforce system wide. Delta management knows this and is willing to pay premium wages, even higher than what their peers with represented employees are paying, in order to stave off any attempts by the rampers to organize. Administratively it is much less costly to pay above union rates and avoid all of the costs and challenges that come with having a group enter a labor cartel.

So, Delta is not operating under truly free market principles. They are making a wise management decision to keep unrepresented labor groups happy and well paid so as to hopefully negate any possibility of losing a representational vote. Take that threat away and the rate Delta pays would be at a natural equilibrium set by the wage rates required to attract and retain qualified people, whatever that may be.

US employees could enjoy the same kinds of higher than union premium rates too, no matter the workgroup. All they would have to do is decertify their union and retain the threat against Management that they can and will reorganize if Management offers them less by being unrepresented than what they could achieve by being in a cartel. You don't have to have an MBA to figure out administratively that dollar for dollar an unrepresented labor group is cheaper than a represented one. For example, take two jobs that earn say $30k a year, one represented like a ramper, a CSA, a reservations agent or whatever, and then one that is unrepresented like an AP or AR accounting clerk and figure out the total cost of employing that individual. Both have a paycheck that reads $30k in net earnings for the year but the actual cost to the company might be $39k for the unrepresented employee and $45k for the the union represented employee. Multiply that times many thousands in a workgroup and you see a substantial savings of unrepresented over represented for the company. Smart employees will understand this and work to save Management money by being unrepresented so that they can take home more money than their represented counterparts. Most of Delta employees have this figured out, so good for them.
 

CallawayGolf

Veteran
Nov 13, 2009
1,920
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Wow, nice insults.

Sorry no one ever thinks for me or thought, I am a leader not a follower, and why is it ok for the airlines to belong to a union "ATA" and Doug and his band of thieves have contracts, so why is it so wrong for the workers to have that too?

Why dont you explain how WN who has been profitable for over 30 years straight, has the highest paid employees in the industry and they are the highest percentage of unionized workers than any other airline?
You don't have to be a registered member of a socialist party to support socialism. Democrats support socialist policies as a regular part of their platform and many or even most Republicans do the same. If you favor or continue to support Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Unemployment, Food Stamps or any of the other 180 or so means-tested federal wealth redistribution programs, then you or your elected representatives favor socialism over free-market forces in our economic system. Democrats are typically more in favor of these social programs than their marginally less socialistic Republican counterparts. For this and a multitude of other anti-business and anti-free market viewpoints, unions endorse and financially support liberal, socialist policies and the campaigns of liberal democrat policy makers. I'm sure that is what UPN was referring to.

I've explained WN profits on numerous occasions. First off they are a very well-run company on a variety of fronts, most of which their competitors have failed to replicate despite many efforts to do so. WN has a operations model that squeezes maximum efficiencies and utilization of their assets (planes, gates, equipment) far above their average legacy peer. Fast AC turns maximizes the revenue generating potential of each AC and also reduces the number of gates required and the number of employees idly sitting by waiting for the next plane to arrive. These efficiencies are gained by their use a single AC class, their non-reserved and non-premium seating policies, a no-frills approach to catering and amenities, cherry-picking city pairs that can be leveraged with strong yields (not flying to smaller, less profitable markets), staying out of the GDS, and the fact that from day one WN has sought to staff its organization with people who want to work hard and make the company successful. People who don't fit the WN culture are either not hired or don't last very long even if they make it past hiring and training. All of this has added up to a very successful business model for WN and everyone who pays attention knows this.

However, even with all of that going for them, WN has at least one major chink in their armor. That is that WN has made far more in fuel hedge gambles over the past twenty years than they did by the basic accounting model of Revenue-Expenses=Net Income. Those financially positive fuel hedges allowed WN to retain their marketing campaign of being a low fares leader and also to continue to pay their motivated and satisfied labor force better than their competitor airlines who were going through massive restructuring efforts to compete with WN and other low fare airlines who were giving the legacies a pounding in the marketplace with their highly effecient and lower cost structures not burdened down by decades of bloat like DL, UA, AA, US, WN all had to contend with. Take away the fuel hedges from this cost of labor discussion, which is appropriate since we are discussing the ability to pay employees from operating revenues, and WN would have had to make many changes back in the 1990's and 2000's just like the rest of the industry did. Make no mistake, WN is probably a great place to work and it has been very well managed over the years, but luck in fuel hedges is equally responsible for their past few decades of success as is what they have done from an airline operations perspective.