The Very Best Flight Attendants In Our Industry

[Oneflyer]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the connection between the Dillard's bag and upper management. Where was Arpey at fault here? So you had a crappy agent and that is Arpey's fault? I'm confused. Why is that every time you have a crappy day at work its upper managements fault? Lots of people work long hours and don't get 8 hours of rest every night, just because what you are doing now is harder than it was before does not mean that upper management is wrong.

There is an undisputable fact that people need to understand. If a job is too hard people will not do it, they will find other ways to make money. If there aren't enough people willing to work at the going rate, then the company will have to raise the wage, but as long as there are people that will continue do the job at a particular rate then the company will won't change. Is that nice or fair, no, but that is what companies have to do to survive.

Here is another tip. Upper management does not wake up every morning with the intention of trying to screw every union employee. They really don't, in fact, they want you to be happy, that unfortunately is not always possible. Do really think that of all the upper level management in the United States, the airline industry just got stuck with the idiots? Do really think that if tomorrow all of AA's management resigned and an entirely new group came in that their answers would be all that different? That answer is a flat out no. Does AA have some crappy managers, hell yes, but so does every company.

Next time you get pissed off at some cost saving rule that you think is stupid, realize that its probably helping to keep the airline flying and that someone who is probably not nearly as dumb as you think he/she is probably spent considerable time thinking about it and probably had a pretty good reason for doing it.

Just because someone is management it doesn't mean that they don't understand what it takes to run an airlines, it doesn't mean they don't understand what the customer wants, and it doesn't mean that their not pissed off that things aren't like they used to be either.

Blaiming Gerard Arpey or some other CEO of another airline for every problem is an easy out. What is difficult is realizing that you are in an industry that has fundamentally changed forever and things will never be the same. Claiming that management is stupid, just doesn't understand, and then allowing your job performance to suffer will only make things worse. The steel industry, textile industry, and other heavly unionize industries that have seen a mass exodus of jobs to forgien countries are proof of that. Though with AA it won't be a Chinese company it will be AirTran, Southwest, or Jetblue.

 

[woztwa]

"Confessions of a Union Buster" by Martin Levitt,
Suggested reading....

 

[MrMarky]

"I had two separate incidences of a coach passenger inviting themselves to sit in F/C. If I had not had a complete PNL on both those flights, I would have had no way of knowing that the passenger did not belong in F/C. I would have had to take their word for it."

Oh really? Then why am I paying for upgrades?

All you have to do is ask to see their boarding pass, Sherlock.

 

[Fly]

So Mr. Markey....would you be insulted to have the flight attendant ask to see your boarding pass everytime you sat in F/C? What if you happened to misplace it, and they booted you to economy? Would you be humiliated?

 

[MrMarky]

Hi Fly,

I just thought the above quoted line was pretty lame. I find it hard to believe an F/A cannot pretty easily determine if someone belongs in their seat, no matter what class they're flying in.

I have been asked for my boarding pass several times, and in fact I have asked other pax for theirs once in a while, when they boarded, upgraded themselves and chose my seat, or simply took it by mistake. I even have had pax take my seat deliberately more than once, because they didn't like their assignment and wanted my seat instead. They got there before me and simply took it! Then, when I get on board, they try to make me look like the bad guy if I don't relent and agree to let them keep the seat. My polite response is that they can either give me my seat or they can discuss it with the F/A. I would be more inclined to have the F/A perform that task, but during the boarding process they are not always accessible and aisles can be crowded and blocked.

I would not be insulted if the question were posed for a legitimate reason, but agree it would be unwelcome if I were asked "every time" I sat in F/C.

If there is a seat conflict, I am going to make sure it gets resolved before the plane leaves the gate. If I have been given a F/C seat assignment I am not about to be "booted" into economy or "humiliated". How can someone "misplace" their boarding pass between the jetway and the plane? Not likely.

None of the above has ever happened to me on AA. but it did on TWA. Let me add that I am among the seemingly small minority here who has found AA service and treatment of me to be generally quite good. I am a former TWA pax and a TWA die-hard. They will always represent the best of the best to me. Having said that, I have absolutely no complaints about AA service or treatment. I think you guys do a good job and I appreciate it. I just hope that my continued business with AA -- I don't fly nearly as much as I used to -- will contribute to a recall of furloughed TWA flight and ground crews.

Good luck and I like your choice of Presidential candidates!

Marky

 

[Fly]

Unfortunately, without a manifest, a flight attendant is not able to "easily determine if someone belongs in their seat, no matter what class they're flying in." ( I had Darryl Hannah on a flight once, greasy hair, cat glasses, sweat clothes, sat on the floor, and ate her salad with her hands ) <---not kidding

BTW, we have no problem fixing up those seat dupes! Next time, just ring the call button, we'll fix it all up for you. We don't mind. My response had to do with the fact that if the flight attendants aren't given the passenger lists, we really would be forced to ask for proof of the seats (uncomfortable for everyone)

How can someone "misplace" their boarding pass between the jetway and the plane? Not likely.

You'd be amazed!!

Good luck and I like your choice of Presidential candidates!

Thanks!!!

 

[jimntx]

Hi Fly,

I just thought the above quoted line was pretty lame. I find it hard to believe an F/A cannot pretty easily determine if someone belongs in their seat, no matter what class they're flying in.

I have been asked for my boarding pass several times, and in fact I have asked other pax for theirs once in a while, when they boarded, upgraded themselves and chose my seat, or simply took it by mistake. I even have had pax take my seat deliberately more than once, because they didn't like their assignment and wanted my seat instead. They got there before me and simply took it! Then, when I get on board, they try to make me look like the bad guy if I don't relent and agree to let them keep the seat. My polite response is that they can either give me my seat or they can discuss it with the F/A. I would be more inclined to have the F/A perform that task, but during the boarding process they are not always accessible and aisles can be crowded and blocked.

I would not be insulted if the question were posed for a legitimate reason, but agree it would be unwelcome if I were asked "every time" I sat in F/C.

If there is a seat conflict, I am going to make sure it gets resolved before the plane leaves the gate. If I have been given a F/C seat assignment I am not about to be "booted" into economy or "humiliated". How can someone "misplace" their boarding pass between the jetway and the plane? Not likely.

None of the above has ever happened to me on AA. but it did on TWA. Let me add that I am among the seemingly small minority here who has found AA service and treatment of me to be generally quite good. I am a former TWA pax and a TWA die-hard. They will always represent the best of the best to me. Having said that, I have absolutely no complaints about AA service or treatment. I think you guys do a good job and I appreciate it. I just hope that my continued business with AA -- I don't fly nearly as much as I used to -- will contribute to a recall of furloughed TWA flight and ground crews.

Good luck and I like your choice of Presidential candidates!

Marky

Well, you may have thought my line was "lame", but you're someone else who thinks you know how the job is done by having observed flight attendants doing it. Maybe you can be a surgeon next.
1. Flight attendants can pull up loads before boarding. That only tells you how many people booked in each class. Tells you nothing about who actually showed up at the gate.
2. Upgrades do not show in the computer until the agent actually performs the upgrade which is normally long after the flight attendants have boarded the plane to do their prep and safety checks. Depending upon the size of the a/c and destination, flight attendants are required to be on board the aircraft a minimum of 40-50 minutes prior to departure.
3. Flight attendant is dependent upon the agent to give a complete final count by cabin, and at AA the names and seat numbers of all the F/C passengers--I can't speak for other airlines.
4. If the flight attendant does not receive the final paperwork, or the agent ran the paperwork while there were only 10 F/C passengers checked in/upgraded, but the agent then issued upgrades or there were last minute sales to additional passengers, unless there is a conflict about seats such as you described, it would be a breach of policy to require F/C passengers to show their boarding passes.
5. As a matter of fact, neither time that I caught people self-upgrading was F/C full, but I had a complete passenger list from the agent; so, I knew each time that I had one more person in the cabin than there should have been. I could then take the list and ask each passenger in F/C by seat number if they were, in fact, Mr. Jones, or Ms. Smith. Without a passenger list, I would have had no way of knowing if any or all of the passengers seated in F/C belonged there.

 

[flydcoop]

oneflyer,

My point was that if that had happened to a member of management, arrangements may have been made. The issue was that in the time it took for the agent to chew out the cockpit and contact the Tower, the bag could have been found and brought to the airplane. It probably became this bureaucratic nightmare for the passenger that may influence his future plans for travel.

I do not blame upper management for everything. I actually want to like Arpey because I believe his 22 years with AA means something to him. I believe he truly loves aviation. I've just been burned by believing the "feel good" leaders of the past and don't care to be that naive again.

I do think concessions were necessary. I understand business decisions and survival. Do I think that this position was taken advantage of? Absolutely. I find the concessions were quite different among work groups.

This is the main obstacle at AA, IMO...DIVIDE AND CONQUER. We have to overcome this deeply rooted corporate culture to move on.

I am someone who loves my job in spite of the current situation. My last post was one of frustration and bitterness...I was tired and disgusted. If I feel this way, imagine the morale of others. It doesn't make it right or wrong, it just "is".

I have made my commitment to this company to the bitter end, whatever that may be. It's like a marriage should be, as far as I'm concerned. I only ask that Executive Management make the same commitment . Only Arpey potentially matches that profile.

Coop

 

[TWAnr]

How can someone "misplace" their boarding pass between the jetway and the plane? Not likely.

mAArky,

It happened to me at least once. I remember being on a CDG-STL-ONT-LAX through flight, well over a decade ago, when I could not find my Royal Ambassador boarding card after re-boarding at STL and stowing my carry on luggage. Despite a frantic search, I found it only after take off when I opened the leg rest on the 767-200 first class seat. The boarding card stub must have flown out of my hand as I was reaching into the overhead compartment and wedged itself between the two panels of the folding leg rest.

On another occasion, flying TLV-CDG-JFK back from my grandmother's funeral in 1990, I noticed someone seating in Ambassador Class who simply did not seem to belong. After the stopover in Paris, I watched carefully as he took his seat in the back of the plane and then sneaked back into an open seat in the business class cabin of the L-1011. I discretely let let the In Flight FSM know of my observations; the boarding pass was then checked and the passenger instructed to go back to his main cabin seat.

By the way, Jetway is a registered trademark. AA uses a competing product which is referred to as a Jet Bridge.

 

[Nebbie Nuts!]

My point was that if that had happened to a member of management, arrangements may have been made.

And your point is a good one.

I don't know about Arpey, but I know the old Carty regime. I am a Million-Miler and was an EXP (earned not awarded) living in Europe at the time. Flew LGW-DFW in C instead of my usual F because F was filled with Carty and the other AA big wigs plus their wives. Upon arrival at DFW we were blocked from exiting the plane while the VIP party slowly gathered all their belongings and leasurily made their way off the plane. Then ground staff formed a rolling blockade so that we couldn't walk past them on the way to immigration. Wouldn't let us in until the executives and families cleared.

Now there was an airline run for the benefit of the executives, not their passengers, EXP's included. Ask me why I am an ex-EXP.

 

[MrMarky]

Well, you may have thought my line was "lame", but you're someone else who thinks you know how the job is done by having observed flight attendants doing it. Maybe you can be a surgeon next.

Hi Uncle Jimmy,

I received my F/A training from Pan American World Airways. At the time, AA was just a mediocre domestic carrier.

Love,

Dr. Marky

 

[woztwa]

So Mr. Markey....would you be insulted to have the flight attendant ask to see your boarding pass everytime you sat in F/C? What if you happened to misplace it, and they booted you to economy? Would you be humiliated?

well, Fly, this is how it USED to go---the lead F/A receieved a PAX(passenger list)
When there was doubt as to the "count" in F/C-as reiterated by the Agent-sometimes the count on the list was not what we ended with and the agent would let us know what PAX she/he added at the last moment---then we would check the
final headcount in F/C. If it still didn't work out, I had no problem asking for boarding passes and those that KNEW they should be there had no problem

 

[flydcoop]

And your point is a good one.

I don't know about Arpey, but I know the old Carty regime. I am a Million-Miler and was an EXP (earned not awarded) living in Europe at the time. Flew LGW-DFW in C instead of my usual F because F was filled with Carty and the other AA big wigs plus their wives. Upon arrival at DFW we were blocked from exiting the plane while the VIP party slowly gathered all their belongings and leasurily made their way off the plane. Then ground staff formed a rolling blockade so that we couldn't walk past them on the way to immigration. Wouldn't let us in until the executives and families cleared.

Now there was an airline run for the benefit of the executives, not their passengers, EXP's included. Ask me why I am an ex-EXP.

Nebbie Nuts!!

You just phrased what I was trying to say in a much better way...thank-you.

I am truly sorry you decided to change carriers (that's how your post sounds with the ex-EXP status).

Your LGW experience mirrors much of what I saw under the Carty Regime (I was an agent for much of it)...I can't say it's as flagrant under Arpey but I'm sure the same rules apply. example, certain codes on the Standby list (A2/A4/A6), are confirmed F/C (all executives) and you will pay oversales to accomodate them.

This includes their family members who may not even be travelling with them.

Remember the big hoopla over Carty going to Mexico with his family?

I do think they should be confirmed Y/C but not F/C in these times. If their accomodation involves downgrading or denying F/C to our Frequent Flyers, I have a problem with that. One has a Revenue ticket, the other has a negotiated perk.

Coop

 

[Segue]

Not any different on any other legacy carrier.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...9¬Found=true


And this is a customer service business??

That response was terrible - full of excuses and even challenging the validity of the claims, at one point suggesting the customer was wimp for being afraid to ask a request of the flight attendant.

If any of you want to know how to do it, go fly out to Singapore or Hong Kong and take a flight on SQ or CX. Now thats service.

Sheesh. No wonder you guys are in trouble.

 

[TransWorldONE]

Not any different on any other legacy carrier.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...9¬Found=true


And this is a customer service business??

That response was terrible - full of excuses and even challenging the validity of the claims, at one point suggesting the customer was wimp for being afraid to ask a request of the flight attendant.

If any of you want to know how to do it, go fly out to Singapore or Hong Kong and take a flight on SQ or CX. Now thats service.

Sheesh. No wonder you guys are in trouble.

You can't compare Asian service with American carriers. There is a differant mindset and culture in the East about service.
US carriers would never get away (as much as the public would like it) with hiring 20 year old Suzy Wong dolls that have to retire at 25 (circa 1965) and work for a fraction of what American crews make.
There is a differance in service...and servitude.