Things that may happen in a merger.

[Move2CLT]

I'd think that depends on a number of variables. No discourtesy meant, but I've got to bail for the time being, so I'll stick with what I'd think your most essential concern would be: How much of a threat, if any, does APA feel regarding your group and the nic being used or not? I've yet no idea as to what weight, or lack thereof that affords you guys in terms of any leverage. We'll have to pick this up later.

Doug wants a merger so he's willing to be generous with a new contract

APA wants a new contract instead of 1113c.

Doug doesn't want the threat of litigation to derail the merger.

APA doesn't want the merger derailed.

AoL's DFR lawsuit can derail the merger and a new contract.

Company uses Nic.

 

[Move2CLT]

=

 

[CactUS4Ever]

The employees of USAir should be organizing a "Keep USAir, my USAir" campaign... because truthfully I suspect that DP plans to pay for all the promises he is making to AA unions by furloughing the USAir union members.

I don't think so. He will do to AA employees what AA did to TWA employees...

 

[Phoenix]

I'd think that depends on a number of variables. No discourtesy meant, but I've got to bail for the time being, so I'll stick with what I'd think your most essential concern would be: How much of a threat, if any, does APA feel regarding your group and the nic being used or not? I've yet no idea as to what weight, or lack thereof that affords you guys in terms of any leverage. We'll have to pick this up later.

If only 320 had been more gracious to bestow upon us an explanation of how things will proceed... then we could be much more conversant. Alas.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I still have not received an answer as to were those dash's that served lga are going to go when the delta slot deal is fully implemented,no new express cities added and no increased frequencies that will use all that lift. <_<

The new time out of DCA has to be flown by somebody with something, unless there's a bunch of way underutilized RJ's sitting around. I haven't bothered to keep up - has US announced the second part of the increased DCA service yet? Seems like it can't be flown till July so it may be a little early to announce that service.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

Doug wants a merger.....

APA wants a new contract instead of 1113c.

APA doesn't want the merger derailed.

Think on what you just wrote a bit more.....Now consider what agency will be passing any/all lists to the APA. What reason does the APA have to give the least thought to west concerns? What you're essentially saying is that all those many thousands of APA people, Parker, and any/all who wish to see a merger happen (with literally billions of dollars involved)....will, "of course", bow to west whims and accept nothing but nic, or "no deal"?..uh huh...and purely from the awesome "fear" all must needs have of mighty AOL's litigious nature? No one can know yet how this will play out, but really...at least be serious 😉 I'd think that no one within such a tiny minority of the now huge picture, ie: 1700 or so pilots, would reasonably seek to kick any sand in anyone's eyes and make threats.....but, hey, "sue"-it yourselves 😉

"AoL's DFR lawsuit can derail the merger and a new contract." I realize that's a "Matter of Faith" to many west folks, but...Ummm.....you sure about that? 😉 Given that you seem to have the "Faith" needed that such is so: would you really like to see what might happen if your fairly small band seeks to "derail the merger"?

While it's amusing speculating; we'll all simply have to wait and see how this will actually play out.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What seems quite reasonable to also note is that nothing, within any APA communication yet seen, shows any great fervor for the nic. Perhaps you can shed some clear light on:
"not a factor", "wasn’t sure.." ..."lawyers have differing opinions"....???

What does "if you're at 50% of your fleet you'll be at 50% of your fleet on the merged list" paraphrasing an APA rep sound like to you? It definitely has a Nic-like sound to me since that's his award in a nutshell...

Besides, what do you think the 3 arbitrator panel will do when presented with their peer Nic's award? "We've got Georges final and binding seniority award for US right here - should we disregard what George has already accomplished and strike out into unknown territory? Nah, let's use George's final and binding list and the AA list." As much as courts hate to second-guess arbitrators, other arbitrators hate it more...their livelihood is tied up with "final and binding"...

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

If only 320 had been more gracious to bestow upon us an explanation of how things will proceed... then we could be much more conversant. Alas.

Indeed 😉

 

[EastUS1]

It definitely has a Nic-like sound to me since that's his award in a nutshell...

Besides, what do you think the 3 arbitrator panel will do when presented with their peer Nic's award?

1) EVERYTHING " has a Nic-like sound to" you. So what? 😉
2) I've no idea. Neither do you. "When presented" amounts to yet another assumption on your part. Who's "presenting" it?

This could go in different directions than any of us project. None will know until it's done....if it happens at all, which, although seemingly very likely, is of it's self, yet an unknown.

 

[Phoenix]

1) EVERYTHING " has a Nic-like sound to" you. So what? 😉
2) I've no idea. Neither do you. "When presented" amounts to yet another assumption on your part. Who's "presenting" it?

This could go in different directions than any of us project. None will know until it's done....if it happens at all, which, although seemingly very likely, is of it's self, yet an unknown.

Certainly there are so many variables we can't know how it will shake out and folks arguing for what they want don't carry too much weight. But I'll wade in the deep end a little ..

USAPA was sued for making its own bargaining position regarding SLI, in spite of aTA (that's basically the charge). Bargaining for a contract by submitting desired proposals is not arbitration of existing lists.

If USAPA is now forced to submit a certified list to a arbitrator via M-B then how can they do anything other than submit the very lists that they must now enforce as presently ratified, much to the chagrin of both sides? They can't submit a list that isn't in use, regardless of their desire.

Doug could try to complete the TA with AWA and US first before initiating aTA with AA, but why, so he can let NIC or DOH rule until being M-Bed shortly thereafter? What the point?

 

[Move2CLT]

Think on what you just wrote a bit more.....Now consider what agency will be passing any/all lists to the APA. What reason does the APA have to give the least thought to west concerns? What you're essentially saying is that all those many thousands of APA people, Parker, and any/all who wish to see a merger happen (with literally billions of dollars involved)....will, "of course", bow to west whims and accept nothing but nic, or "no deal"?..uh huh...and purely from the awesome "fear" all must needs have of mighty AOL's litigious nature? No one can know yet how this will play out, but really...at least be serious 😉 I'd think that no one within such a tiny minority of the now huge picture, ie: 1700 or so pilots, would reasonably seek to kick any sand in anyone's eyes and make threats.....but, hey, "sue"-it yourselves 😉

"AoL's DFR lawsuit can derail the merger and a new contract." I realize that's a "Matter of Faith" to many west folks, but...Ummm.....you sure about that? 😉 Given that you seem to have the "Faith" needed that such is so: would you really like to see what might happen if your fairly small band seeks to "derail the merger"?

While it's amusing speculating; we'll all simply have to wait and see how this will actually play out.

Now put a little effort into your thought process and not your keyboard.

Parker wants the Nic accepted because using any other list will entangle him with litigation that may blow this whole deal.

Doug is not going to risk that happening. The APA isn't going to risk it happening. They've already accepted the fact that this is going relative seniority and they don't care how the list is structured coming from our end so long as it doesn't have potential litigation attached to it.

You'll find, shortly, the Silver is going to back the Nic award up as well so that USAPA has no other choice than to push the Nic across the table.

Parker wants a merger. The APA wants a new contract. And we expect the Nic to be used.

Everyone's happy (except the east but that don't matter because they're never happy) and the deal gets done.

Its how its going to happen.

 

[Move2CLT]

Certainly there are so many variables we can't know how it will shake out and folks arguing for what they want don't carry too much weight. But I'll wade in the deep end a little ..

USAPA was sued for making its own bargaining position regarding SLI, in spite of aTA (that's basically the charge). Bargaining for a contract by submitting desired proposals is not arbitration of existing lists.

If USAPA is now forced to submit a certified list to a arbitrator via M-B then how can they do anything other than submit the very lists that they must now enforce as presently ratified, much to the chagrin of both sides? They can't submit a list that isn't in use, regardless of their desire.

Doug could try to complete the TA with AWA and US first before initiating aTA with AA, but why, so he can let NIC or DOH rule until being M-Bed shortly thereafter? What the point?

USAPA may try to pull a DOH push across the table but, like once before, it'll be pushed back and then Parker will lay the Nicolay award on the table and say to use that because we will more than likely get sued otherwise. He more than likely will have Silver backing up that statement.

Arbitration will ensue and the Nic will make its debut and voila! A new list. APA is declared the CBA and the contract they've already negotiated becomes our own - all without one vote.

 

[BoeingBoy]

1) EVERYTHING " has a Nic-like sound to" you. So what? 😉

Demonstrably false - DOH definitely doesn't have a Nic-like sound to me...but I've read nothing yet from APA that sounds DOH-like...

So that's "what".

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA may try to pull a DOH push across the table but, like once before, it'll be pushed back and then Parker will lay the Nicolay award on the table and say to use that because we will more than likely get sued otherwise. He more than likely will have Silver backing up that statement.

Arbitration will ensue and the Nic will make its debut and voila! A new list. APA is declared the CBA and the contract they've already negotiated becomes our own - all without one vote.

Arbitrators don't receive desired lists, they receive certified lists.

 

[Move2CLT]

Arbitrators don't receive desired lists, they receive certified lists.

The Nic is certified and bona fide.