Third Party Work

[AMFAMAN]

There are 2 articles of interest in Overhaul and Maintenance magazine this month. One is the cover story about the top 10 MRO's and then on the last page an article talks about Lufthansa Techniks profits. L.T. by the way is the number 2 MRO n the world. When you combine the stats on the 2 articles, Lufthansa Techniks accomplished 5.4 million hours of maintenance of which 2.6 million were on 3rd party for a profit of only 227.3 euro or around $300 million for the entire operation. This would equate to over 2,600 workers for the entire operation or 1250 for the 3rd party work based on the reported man-hours. They don't breakout the 3rd party profit numbers so you don't know how much is 3rd party profit. But even it you put the entire amount as 3rd party profit, is AA willing to dedicate 1250 heads towards making $300 million a year? L.T. has been in the 3rd party business for over 10 years and that's the best they can do, how does AA expect to pull off this $500 million over the next 18 months. L.T. signed up 255 new customers alone last year which gave them only 330 million euro in additional sales.
You can find the story on aviationnow.com/om but it shows you must pay for it. I scanned it but usaviation won't let me post it because of its size.

 

[FWAAA]

AA is looking for a combination of $500 million in add'l revenue and/or cost savings at TULE, right?

In this thread, I posted that $500 million is equal to 890 mechanics working each of three shifts at $90/hour, which sounds like a reasonable outsourced rate. Given the number of domestic airlines no longer performing any heavy airframe maintenance, achieving this goal shouldn't be too hard.

 

[AMFAMAN]

AA is looking for a combination of $500 million in add'l revenue and/or cost savings at TULE, right?

In this thread, I posted that $500 million is equal to 890 mechanics working each of three shifts at $90/hour, which sounds like a reasonable outsourced rate. Given the number of domestic airlines no longer performing any heavy airframe maintenance, achieving this goal shouldn't be too hard.

[post="270075"][/post]​

How did I know you would be the first to jump on this thread?

Revenue would make sense but the union is now talking profit and how we need to get the $500 million to make AA more profits so we will get profit sharing. The usual song and dance. Now based on L.T.'s 10% profit margin, $500 million in revenue would only add $50 million in profits. Not much at all.

 

[FWAAA]

How did I know you would be the first to jump on this thread?

[post="270079"][/post]​

Just wanted to ensure that there would be at least one on-topic reply before the usual "Cowards, Coffins, Criminals, etc." replies began.

I figured AA was looking for half a billion in revenue from its TULE initiatives. If it's looking for $500 million in PROFITS, then I agree that it's unlikely to happen.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Just wanted to ensure that there would be at least one on-topic reply before the usual "Cowards, Coffins, Criminals, etc." replies began.

[post="270083"][/post]​

Good call I am sure that soon my twu friends will be calling me part of the problem and that I should quit for questioning their math and most of all reading industry magazines.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Good call I am sure that soon my twu friends will be calling me part of the problem and that I should quit for questioning their math and most of all reading industry magazines.

[post="270087"][/post]​

AMFAMAN, the article is interesting. And I think your math is good enough. For LT or any 3rd party facility to make money I believe they need many customers. Of the 225 that LT signed up I wonder how many of these customers have large fleets. By large I mean over 30 aircraft.

As for your twu friends, they may reply. If they do they will attempt to twist the truth by repeating whatever the international says is true.

 

[Boomer]

In announcing the outsourcing of the majority of their overhaul, DAL stated that they expected a cost saving of $250 million over 5 years or $50 million a year.

Given that DAL Maintenance & Engineering is non-Union: how do those that continually claim that Unions lead to a loss in productivity expect a Union Legacy Carrier such as AMR(American Airlines) to reap a 10 fold savings over a non-Union carrier?

How can AA reasonably expect to achieve a $500 million savings while carrying the TWU, while non-Union DAL only expects a $50 million dollar savings.

After all AA is carrying three overhaul bases that were initially deemed necessary for a fleet of over 1100 aircraft but have since been reduced to 800 and while those three overhaul bases are only operating at some 66% actual capacity due to the fact that they only operate two full shifts M-F?

 

[Checking it Out]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

 

[TWU informer]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

[post="270268"][/post]​

SO, we are really preparing more in-house concessions for AA and not so much third party work as we led to believe

OK, now the AA/TWU scam becomes more clear.

Meanwhile, we a re "building a trust bridge" as part of the pajama party break through goal.

Are you going to blow as much smoke up the bean counters ass to convince them you reached this goal? What a friggin joke!

 

[Buck]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

[post="270268"][/post]​

Rolling over for management has not worked at AA either, but the TWU continues to concede at every contract. Twenty years of concessions and you still believe that it is ok to screw those members on the property and those yet to be hired.

 

[Hackman]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

[post="270268"][/post]​

Savings in-house??? What you mean more twu concessions??? Savings on what??? There is no way....nooooo wayyyyy Tulsa alone is going to generate $500 in cost "savings", "concessions" or what ever you twu "dreamworld" believers want to call it.

"It has to work". Why genius??? ManAAgement has a twu worker bank account, so if the $500 million "buffalo dance" fails in T-town, then its up to Chief Do-little to get the scary things out of the bag for his manAAgement friends.

"Fighting manAAgement has not worked at other carriers". WTF would you know about fighting for anything. Just roll over Flash and go back to bed. :blink: :huh: :blink:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

cio,

"Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!"

The above quote from you tops right up there with your inability to promote the twu without stating your real name! What would you or the twu know about "fighting management"? Fighting management is not like fighting the membership. That you and the twu know all about.

You want an alternative? How about getting rid of the twu? How about having a craft union that does not go to pajama parties and jumps whenever the company snaps their fingers.

Open eyes? That's a laugh. The ONLY thing you would see if you opened your eyes is a supervisor's desk draw. You want to look outside the envelope? Try starting by looking at inside our craft & profession. You will see the devestation created/started by industrial unions.

The twu... an organization that FEARS fighting management. h34r:

 

[AMFAMAN]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

[post="270268"][/post]​

Will that be $500 million in revenue or profits? If it is profit, how much can be expect to come from cost savings? Even $250 million in profit from third party would be an extremely tall order. If it is revenue from third party, how much profit should we expect?

 

[Boomer]

The 500 million encompasses everything from savings in-house to adding third party work.

Changing from a cost center to a profit center. In order to have long term viability, we have no choice. It has to work.

Fighting management has not worked at the other carriers. So why not look at alternatives? Open eyes and looking outside the envelope is a start!

Will it work? Who knows?

[post="270268"][/post]​

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CIO,

Stalin was once asked if he ever worried about getting enough votes to "win" re-election; he replied, "Never worry about the votes, worry about who counts the votes."

I) Who counts the cost savings/increased revenue into your mythical profit center?

II) How are costs defined and when is revenue realized?

III) What is the "all-in" labor rate and is that rate the same as the one used by the Company during the "concessions negotiations"?

IV) Did Local 514 hire an accounting firm to independently audit the financials before agreeing to anything?

The TWU retained ECLAT, with the permission of AA, before the last fiasco. ECLAT supposedly never told the TWU about the KERP/SERP plans and in the end ECLAT only retained a fiduciary duty to the International not the Members. Remember the 30% revenue premium AA was going to obtain over the LCCs? The head of ECLAT said shortly after the deal was done that the 30% was not going to happen; do you really beleive that he did not tell AA and the TWU the same thing? If Local 514 did not independently hire their own accounting firm, who are the accounting firms' fiduciaries?

V) Did Local 514 hire an attorney to write the language of any agreement they entered into, and who does that attorney represent?

The bubbas from the TWU wrote the last contract language, with a "little" help from the International and an attorney from the AFL-CIO retained by the TWU. By now we all know that if you are not paying an attorney to represent the membership, he represents the Union. Never confuse an attorney representing the organization with representing the members: Who paid the attorney that wrote the agreement for the creation of the profit center and did that agreement state that the attorney was representing the TWU, Local 514 or the Members? Was there even an attorney retained?

You gotta walk before you run brother. We need transparency and with the TWU we will not get it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Boomer,May 18 2005, 01:46 PM]
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CIO,

Stalin was once asked if he ever worried about getting enough votes to "win" re-election; he replied, "Never worry about the votes, worry about who counts the votes."

Ah yes, just like Florida and Diebold.

Sorry, couldn't resist.