Tulsa's AMT's can make things better

[787nightmare]

For you Tulsa AMT's......Sounds like your line brothers want you to get on board with AMFA? Do your homework if it comes to a vote... Southwest Airlines 700+ aircraft and approx 2000-2500 ATM's. I believe they run 4 "C" Check lines... Alaska Airlines...No heavy Check done in house... All AMT's are Line Maint... United Airline....Those AMT's stopped the purge.. AMFA is no utopia for AMT's. Mr. swamt I have a Question for you. Are you an AMFA National Officer?

And you think AMR isn't going to mimic the other carriers as far as maintenance budget & outsourcing? Get real....
Only difference is it'll be called American Airlines MRO by the industry insiders. Same name, MRO wages.

 

[reclineaholic]

787nightmare, I see what your saying and I wish we would have at least asked to be released during our 4 yrs of negotiations. We said no pleanty but were never willing to back it up.

I have nothing but respect for the guys at northwest, some of my EAL union brothers were there. I would always stand with my union when a majority rules no matter how I voted.

What I was asking is how that helped the unions causes, because it seems to have given the companys more power and the unions less.

 

[Brain]

And you think AMR isn't going to mimic the other carriers as far as maintenance budget & outsourcing? Get real....
Only difference is it'll be called American Airlines MRO by the industry insiders. Same name, MRO wages.

 

[Brain]

I'm not saying they won't mimic them....I'm saying with AMFA you will and I mean "WILL" sit on the side watch and say or do nothing.. hey but look at the good side, if you say nothing and don't complain when its over those that do remain, American will call them there professional maint. Team..

 

[Hopeful]

And you think AMR isn't going to mimic the other carriers as far as maintenance budget & outsourcing? Get real....
Only difference is it'll be called American Airlines MRO by the industry insiders. Same name, MRO wages.

Speaking of copying other airlines as far as maintenance goes....WHAT DO ALL THE OTHER CARRIERS, BOTH LOW COST AND POST BANKRUPT LEGACY CARRIERS DO?

OUTSOURCE OH WORK!

 

[swamt]

swamt, I agree with most of the things you say, I know you are here to help us and I have nothing against amfa but when you say and I quote


"The one thing all the NWA guys can in fact say is, "they took one for the industry" yes they did."

What do you mean there? It looks to me they showed a weakness that for the benifit of all union workers would have been better off hidden.

Yes we all know they lost because they had no support from other unions but they should have known that going in right?

You kinda answered it yourself. They knew going it it was going to be extremely tough. When AL other union groups started crossing the picket lines, they knew they were doomed as they did not recieve any support. SWA mechanics and cleaners supported the NWA guys at DFW. Walking with them, donating and not working some aircraft at stations we both flew. Yet big officer union men from ibt still flew NWA to continue to do union bus on an airline during a strike, PATHETIC in my eyes sir. AMFA is also the union that got the ball rolling with large increases in aviation for the mechanics (AMFA @ NWA). I remember guys at DFW saying, "guess we will have to take one for the industry" What he ment at that time was, they knew they were loosing there jobs, but continued to walk and picket.
Although I do not know for a fact; If any other union was on NWA property representing the mechs at the same time, that union would have folded and caved to come back to work. They would have claimed (just like AA's mech's union is now) that it was the best thing to do considering the other outcome. Well, sometimes you just gotta take a stand, which is exacatly what NWA mech's with AMFA did for the industry. ibt, twu, iam and other unions continueously crossed picket lines to keep NWA flying. You see, in my opinion, all the other unions wanted AMFA to fail the NWA strike so that AMFA could possibly go away. This very exact same thing is happening right now at AA with the concluson of TWU allowing the ibt to come in and raid AA mechs. The teamsters will do anything, say anything, spend millions upon millions, to assist in AMFA failing to grow within the airline industry. They know for a FACT that if AMFA prevails at AA it will only be a matter of time. AA mechs will be key effort for the AMFA craft unions future, and the teamsters and the TWU both know this.

 

[swamt]

I'm not saying they won't mimic them....I'm saying with AMFA you will and I mean "WILL" sit on the side watch and say or do nothing.. hey but look at the good side, if you say nothing and don't complain when its over those that do remain, American will call them there professional maint. Team..

You know what Brian, don't speak about what AMFA will do or not do. AMFA has brought numerous outsourced maint. back into house at SWA that you never speak of. When the company farms something out they were not supposed our "Outsourcing Rep" Full time possition with AMFA/SWA files the paperwork. AMFA is the only union that has this position within a contract. Let us not forget AMFA is the only union to bring in more maint to our Dallas mechs by nego a 4th line of heavy maint as well as nego new aircraft maint in Denver. The Denver positions will be posted this month. The 4th line will start mid July 2013, but the company is still hiring 5-10 mechs each and every month until head count is reached of a tot of about 90, as this too was nego by AMFA. I think you better take a good look at the current union, TWU, agreeing to 40% maint getting farmed out of the house. If you don't believe me our contract is public info, simply click and read.
I really do wish you guys would stop the false rumors and misleading postings about AMFA. Everything is simply 100% better at AMFA than the other unions, that all you guys have is lies and misleading info to try to win your cases to keep or mov e onto yet another industrial union.-- You can have them both...

 

[odie01]

Just read this article, thanks to Sam and John we get to bump up to T town...Now that's really looking out for your local. Good job 514, your yes vote recomondation saved some of our AFW mechanics from the unemployment line!

Due to the Transport Workers Union's "bump-and-roll" provision, some Texas mechanics could take jobs in Tulsa

MATT BARNARD / Tulsa World file By JOHN STANCAVAGE World Business Editor

Published: 8/12/2012 2:34 AM

Last Modified: 8/12/2012 3:17 AM





On the surface, the Transport Workers Union's approval of a new contract with American Airlines last week would appear to have saved about 1,400 Tulsa jobs.



But for existing local workers, it's more complicated than that.



American Airlines, which is trying to cut $1.06 billion in labor costs to help it emerge from bankruptcy, originally planned to eliminate 2,100 mechanics at its Tulsa maintenance base. The deal approved by the TWU on Aug. 8 - the second offered by American while it has been under Chapter 11 protection - reduced that amount to 770.



A second TWU group, stock clerks, also approved a pact that lowered cuts in Tulsa from a planned 160 to 90.



Still, there's another event that's quietly looming - the planned closure of American's repair base at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth. Because of union "bump-and-roll" provisions, some of the more than 1,500 TWU mechanics there will have the option to move to Tulsa.



The bump rules are complicated, but seniority is a big factor. So, younger members in Tulsa that voted yes undoubtedly will be displaced by some Fort Worth workers.



"There's no way to tell at this point how many that would be," said John Hewitt, chairman of maintenance at TWU Local 514, in a telephone interview. "There's a lot of moving parts."



So, the bottom line is that it's possible more than 770 of Tulsa's existing mechanics may lose their jobs.



In purely economic terms, the impact on the city will be lessened slightly by Texans moving here and buying homes, but the situation also means some longtime Tulsans will be put out of work and may lose their houses if they can't find other positions.



American has told the union it wants to close Alliance and redistribute employees and work in the next six to nine months, Hewitt said.



Sam Cirri, president of TWU Local 514, alluded to the situation last Thursday in a letter to members.



"Dealing with this bankruptcy process has put a lot of stress on all of us and our families and, yet, we still have a lot of work and sacrifice ahead of us with layoffs and the movement of people and work," he said.



Cirri said the Local 514 will be notifying Tulsa Area United Way agencies, the state unemployment office, resume firms and other service providers to help members who are laid off.



"We are also in the process of making more medical insurance options available, whether (members) stay with the company or not," the president said.



Mike Neal, president and CEO of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, also said his group is ready to help.



"While aviation and aerospace remain key industry sectors in the region's economic development success," he said, "it is the human capital - our highly skilled work force - which allows these industries to thrive.



"We will intensely focus our resources toward the present and future economic and human well-being of displaced workers and their families."



Another "moving part" in the layoff scenario is that the TWU's latest contract includes an early-out provision.



"It's not early retirement, although that's what some people are calling it," Hewitt said. "It's a deal for someone to leave the company early."



Under the program, a mechanic who is 45 years old with 15 years with the company could be eligible for a $12,500 cash payout, plus $10,000 and 13 weeks' severance pay.



AMR will announce a time period when TWU members can elect to leave, he said.



As a result, it's possible some Texas workers could move to Tulsa to take jobs left open by those taking advantage of the exit program.



Along with the closing of Alliance, there's another action that will hit Tulsa before American emerges from bankruptcy. The carrier has said there will be layoffs outside of what's been announced for its unions.



In Tulsa, where there are 7,000 total employees, there could be several hundred more jobs cut beyond the mechanics and clerks. Officials have declined so far to be more specific.



Overall, it means there could be close to 1,000 people locally looking for aerospace-related work next year.



Tulsa recently has enjoyed a boom in the industry, with firms such as Lufthansa Technik adding significant jobs.



The TWU's Hewitt said he has heard about interest in American employees.



"I think the other companies out there in Tulsa realize the experience our workers have," he said.



TWU workers who survive the cuts will be working under a new contract that includes 15 percent wage increases over six years, improved health-care coverage compared with previous offers, market wage readjustment - based on industry compensation - after 36 months and the ability to reopen full contract negotiations after four years.



The contract, however, also permits the company to outsource up to 35 percent of aircraft maintenance now performed in-house. That worries union officials, who are trying to persuade American to take on more maintenance for other carriers.



"Third-party work, however, isn't currently part of American's plan to exit bankruptcy," Hewitt said. "That's a major concern to us because the company also is going to be buying new planes that don't need as much maintenance.



"We've done some contract work in the past and we're doing a little bit now. Everybody we do work for seems real happy with it."



Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworl...E1_CUTLIN161530

 

[swamt]

Just read this article, thanks to Sam and John we get to bump up to T town...Now that's really looking out for your local. Good job 514, your yes vote recomondation saved some of our AFW mechanics from the unemployment line!

Due to the Transport Workers Union's "bump-and-roll" provision, some Texas mechanics could take jobs in Tulsa

MATT BARNARD / Tulsa World file By JOHN STANCAVAGE World Business Editor

Published: 8/12/2012 2:34 AM

Last Modified: 8/12/2012 3:17 AM





On the surface, the Transport Workers Union's approval of a new contract with American Airlines last week would appear to have saved about 1,400 Tulsa jobs.



But for existing local workers, it's more complicated than that.



American Airlines, which is trying to cut $1.06 billion in labor costs to help it emerge from bankruptcy, originally planned to eliminate 2,100 mechanics at its Tulsa maintenance base. The deal approved by the TWU on Aug. 8 - the second offered by American while it has been under Chapter 11 protection - reduced that amount to 770.



A second TWU group, stock clerks, also approved a pact that lowered cuts in Tulsa from a planned 160 to 90.



Still, there's another event that's quietly looming - the planned closure of American's repair base at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth. Because of union "bump-and-roll" provisions, some of the more than 1,500 TWU mechanics there will have the option to move to Tulsa.



The bump rules are complicated, but seniority is a big factor. So, younger members in Tulsa that voted yes undoubtedly will be displaced by some Fort Worth workers.



"There's no way to tell at this point how many that would be," said John Hewitt, chairman of maintenance at TWU Local 514, in a telephone interview. "There's a lot of moving parts."



So, the bottom line is that it's possible more than 770 of Tulsa's existing mechanics may lose their jobs.



In purely economic terms, the impact on the city will be lessened slightly by Texans moving here and buying homes, but the situation also means some longtime Tulsans will be put out of work and may lose their houses if they can't find other positions.



American has told the union it wants to close Alliance and redistribute employees and work in the next six to nine months, Hewitt said.



Sam Cirri, president of TWU Local 514, alluded to the situation last Thursday in a letter to members.



"Dealing with this bankruptcy process has put a lot of stress on all of us and our families and, yet, we still have a lot of work and sacrifice ahead of us with layoffs and the movement of people and work," he said.



Cirri said the Local 514 will be notifying Tulsa Area United Way agencies, the state unemployment office, resume firms and other service providers to help members who are laid off.



"We are also in the process of making more medical insurance options available, whether (members) stay with the company or not," the president said.



Mike Neal, president and CEO of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, also said his group is ready to help.



"While aviation and aerospace remain key industry sectors in the region's economic development success," he said, "it is the human capital - our highly skilled work force - which allows these industries to thrive.



"We will intensely focus our resources toward the present and future economic and human well-being of displaced workers and their families."



Another "moving part" in the layoff scenario is that the TWU's latest contract includes an early-out provision.



"It's not early retirement, although that's what some people are calling it," Hewitt said. "It's a deal for someone to leave the company early."



Under the program, a mechanic who is 45 years old with 15 years with the company could be eligible for a $12,500 cash payout, plus $10,000 and 13 weeks' severance pay.



AMR will announce a time period when TWU members can elect to leave, he said.



As a result, it's possible some Texas workers could move to Tulsa to take jobs left open by those taking advantage of the exit program.



Along with the closing of Alliance, there's another action that will hit Tulsa before American emerges from bankruptcy. The carrier has said there will be layoffs outside of what's been announced for its unions.



In Tulsa, where there are 7,000 total employees, there could be several hundred more jobs cut beyond the mechanics and clerks. Officials have declined so far to be more specific.



Overall, it means there could be close to 1,000 people locally looking for aerospace-related work next year.



Tulsa recently has enjoyed a boom in the industry, with firms such as Lufthansa Technik adding significant jobs.



The TWU's Hewitt said he has heard about interest in American employees.



"I think the other companies out there in Tulsa realize the experience our workers have," he said.



TWU workers who survive the cuts will be working under a new contract that includes 15 percent wage increases over six years, improved health-care coverage compared with previous offers, market wage readjustment - based on industry compensation - after 36 months and the ability to reopen full contract negotiations after four years.



The contract, however, also permits the company to outsource up to 35 percent of aircraft maintenance now performed in-house. That worries union officials, who are trying to persuade American to take on more maintenance for other carriers.



"Third-party work, however, isn't currently part of American's plan to exit bankruptcy," Hewitt said. "That's a major concern to us because the company also is going to be buying new planes that don't need as much maintenance.



"We've done some contract work in the past and we're doing a little bit now. Everybody we do work for seems real happy with it."



Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworl...E1_CUTLIN161530

Did the Tulsa yes voters know this was coming??

 

[Brain]

Swamt.. be careful what you say. So if AMFA fails does that mean AMFA is a failure and you will be looking for another union?

 

[Rogallo]

Did the Tulsa yes voters know this was coming??

No, there were too many trees blocking the view of the forest..!!!

 

[Realityck]

SWAMT: You know what Brian, don't speak about what AMFA will do or not do. AMFA has brought numerous outsourced maint. back into house at SWA that you never speak of. When the company farms something out they were not supposed our "Outsourcing Rep" Full time possition with AMFA/SWA files the paperwork. AMFA is the only union that has this position within a contract. Let us not forget AMFA is the only union to bring in more maint to our Dallas mechs by nego a 4th line of heavy maint as well as nego new aircraft maint in Denver. The Denver positions will be posted this month. The 4th line will start mid July 2013, but the company is still hiring 5-10 mechs each and every month until head count is reached of a tot of about 90, as this too was nego by AMFA. I think you better take a good look at the current union, TWU, agreeing to 40% maint getting farmed out of the house. If you don't believe me our contract is public info, simply click and read.

I really do wish you guys would stop the false rumors and misleading postings about AMFA. Everything is simply 100% better at AMFA than the other unions, that all you guys have is lies and misleading info to try to win your cases to keep or mov e onto yet another industrial union.-- You can have them both..

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

First I would like you to know I have always respected the SWA AMT’s. They are expected to be hard working and know what they are doing. Southwest carefully screens new hires to insure they get the cream of the AMT crop, but if you work there you know this already. My tilt is really with AMFA who I’ve known about for many years.


For example: After attempting repeated raids against other unions like the IAM, IBT, and TWU, they thought they would somehow forget all that and support AMFA at NWA. How naïve was that? Even the Pilots wouldn’t participate.

Another issue that AMFA brags about is the fact the current SWA - AMFA contract is claimed to be the industry leader. They conveniently forget that AMFA inherited it from the IBT, and improvements came about to a large degree because SWA management (in most cases) tends to recognize the value of it’s employees, and has never suffered a losing quarter. Something no other carrier can claim and that adds major leverage in contract negotiations, besides the obvious fact that AA is in bankruptcy whether we feel its an appropriate venue or not.

As an example, I’m sure you know the SWA Flight Attendants, Ramp Agents, and Flight Dispatchers are represented by TWU.

“Southwest Airlines and the Transport Workers Union said Monday that Southwest’s flight dispatchers at Southwest Airlines have approved a new contract that goes through November 2014. The union said of 188 eligible voters, 180 voted in favor and two voted against the contract, with six not voting. CORRECTED, 2:45 p.m.: The original announcement put the vote at 180-6”.
Local TWU president Mike Connor said the deal provides “top of industry wages.”

In regard to AMFA’s SWA outsourcing I took your advice and although it took a lot of effort to find it, checked your current contract language:

“The new contract also includes a Letter of Agreement restricting the Company’s ability to perform maintenance at international locations to a maximum of four (4) lines should the need arise. This new language removes the Company’s current unlimited ability to take non-customarily preformed work out of the United States” (If I recall, a new (4[sup]th[/sup]) line was authorized for San Salvador).

“Southwest Airlines Mechanics shall continue to perform the existing Three (3) Heavy lines that are currently being conducted at Southwest Airlines facilities”.


As for the comparison of outsourcing oversight language:

SWA - “The Company agrees to assign one (1) AMFA Representative as a liaison to work with the Maintenance Planning Department. This representative will be responsible for the coordination of all outsource notifications between the Company and AMFA utilizing such methods as agreed upon by the parties”.

AA - The Company has agreed to create a joint committee with the TWU International for the purpose of reviewing quarterly, insourcing and outsourcing practices.


While you criticize the new TWU outsourcing limits, I believe they are more restrictive than those of every other major carrier in the industry.


SWA current contract language:

“The Company agrees to maintain no less than an authorized headcount of 2.75, in the mechanic (aircraft, facilities, ground support, lead and inspector) work group per aircraft ratio, provided however, such ratio shall not include any aircraft that are operated on behalf of the Company by another air carrier in conjunction with any Code-Share or Marketing Agreement”.


By comparison, a quick check of the AA Title I seniority list (AMTs, Crew Chiefs, and Inspectors only) indicates an approximate current staffing headcount of 13.9 AMT’s per aircraft. Even with the potential future layoff of 2155 AMTs, we would still be at an approximate headcount of 10.2 AMT’s per aircraft, far above that of SWA. The bottom line is if American were offered the SWA - AMFA outsourcing language, AA CEO Tom Horton would think he died and went to heaven!

In closing, I should add that the Transport Workers Union was the first Union that negotiated an ASAP Program for its AMT’s. A Self-disclosure Program that has served our members interests in an era of increasing federal agency oversight.

SWAMT - I don’t mean to criticize you for not knowing the numbers I’ve researched from the AA data since you don’t work here, or have access to it like I have. And in typical AMFA fashion, I wouldn’t expect AMFA to provide you with anything that would undermine their version of the facts. You are an AMT like I am, and that I do respect. “Good Luck to you”

 

[700UW]

The IAM at US has a committee that audits all the outsourcing, so AMFA isnt the only union, its in the CBA, and how much maintenance does WN outsource?

Does WN do complete overhauls in-house?

At US only 50% of maintenance dollars can be outsourced.

to the union and/or the union’s advisor, documentation
3 necessary to verify the Company’s compliance with outsourcing
4 provisions including a summary of the previous calendar year’s
5 base maintenance paid hours and vendor airframe base
6 maintenance billed hours. On an ongoing basis the Company will
7 provide to the Union no later than the end of the following month a
8 summary of the previous month’s base maintenance vendor’s
9 billable hours including tail numbers of the aircraft.
10
11 In any year where the vendor billed hours are more than
12 fifty (50%) percent of the total combined vendor billed hours and
13 the Company base maintenance paid hours, such deficit hours will
14 be added to the current calendar year required company base
15 maintenance paid hours.

 

[TWU informer]

The IAM at US has a committee that audits all the outsourcing, so AMFA isnt the only union, its in the CBA, and how much maintenance does WN outsource?

Does WN do complete overhauls in-house?

At US only 50% of maintenance dollars can be outsourced.

to the union and/or the union’s advisor, documentation
3 necessary to verify the Company’s compliance with outsourcing
4 provisions including a summary of the previous calendar year’s
5 base maintenance paid hours and vendor airframe base
6 maintenance billed hours. On an ongoing basis the Company will
7 provide to the Union no later than the end of the following month a
8 summary of the previous month’s base maintenance vendor’s
9 billable hours including tail numbers of the aircraft.
10
11 In any year where the vendor billed hours are more than
12 fifty (50%) percent of the total combined vendor billed hours and
13 the Company base maintenance paid hours, such deficit hours will
14 be added to the current calendar year required company base
15 maintenance paid hours.

Auditing Outsource is easy. But also worthless.

Who is going to stop it?

I love the Industrial Union thinking here:

"We know your job was outsourced, but next week we can audit the books and confirm it really did happen"

Really?

How about stop trying to force AMT's into industrial unions and instead actually combining forces and doing something about it? Nope, instead we will bash Romney for Bain outsourcing American jobs, while voting yes to increasing airline outsourcing because we get to audit it. What a great Political Strategy that is.

 

[swamt]

For you Tulsa AMT's......Sounds like your line brothers want you to get on board with AMFA? Do your homework if it comes to a vote... Southwest Airlines 700+ aircraft and approx 2000-2500 ATM's. I believe they run 4 "C" Check lines... Alaska Airlines...No heavy Check done in house... All AMT's are Line Maint... United Airline....Those AMT's stopped the purge.. AMFA is no utopia for AMT's. Mr. swamt I have a Question for you. Are you an AMFA National Officer?

No. I am not. Not even a local officer. Why do you ask??