Twu/Amfa Supporters

[1AA]

I don't have a problem with 514's leaders so why would I run.

You should run since you seem to criticize the union officers that are in the position to make the changes or lead. Your posts seem to give the idea that you have the answers to our problems. If you have the answers or solutions you can not implement them by sitting back on your keyboard and sound off. Walk in the other mans shoes and give it a go. This is a democratic union so I was told.

 

[AC Tynker]

Well you really should consider taking on the responsibility to come up with just one solution or a suggestion. You just want others to fix your problems and cater to your complaints. Try taking the time and effort that you spend complaining and focus on coming up with just one suggestion or solution. This is another area both AA Management and the TWU fail, they keep catering to the chronic complainers and that does nothing but create a revolving door of complainers and then not only does the complainer not offer any ideas, but the fixer has to take time away from coming up with more suggestions and working the ideas already available because they are too damn busy with the chronic complainers club.

Until you come up with at least one suggestion or solution, myself and others can do nothing but keep trying to satisfy your desire for attention. Enabling complainers is not going to solve a damn thing, but it will surely make matters worse.

So what you are saying is that I am not allowed to have an Opinion or express said Opinion unless I have a plan as to run a Union or I have to have a plan to run for office in the current Union ? You're also saying if I don't think and act just like you that I can not express my Opinion of Elected Leaders breaking many cardinal rules of being said leader ? When I see contradiction and complete turn about thrown out here in public forum instead of it just being a rumor that I heard from someone around the system that I know, I am not allowed to call a B.S. on it if I can't offer an alternate solution to fix everything we have wrong in our current Union ?

I'm not sure if I can follow the rules you have suggested. When an Elected Leader gets on here and bashes the hell out of people that are doing the best they can possibly do considering the situation I am going to call a B.S. When an Elected Leader gets on here bashes the hell out of the same people for trying to follow suggested professional advice of Experienced Legal Counsel instead of someone that has read something on the net and works on live aircraft for a living I am going to call a B.S. If that is being a Chronic Complainer then so be it.

 

[odie01]

That would be Bobs dept. He is the one that has the Super Local plan that encompasses the whole system modeled after Local 100 and WN Locals. You might want to ask him....well that is of course if this is TWU week for him, if you know someone from JFK you may ask them to shake him like one of those 8 Balls that answer your question and see what answer he gives.

I don't have a problem with 514's leaders so why would I run. When you can readily read the smear tactics from one local against another it deserves to be addressed in my opinion.

Smear tactics? All of the line local's and AFW do not agree with Tulsa, (the whole system). Whatabout Bob, and look at the rest of the system that voted No, the concensus is we do not agree with what the twu international has brought back for us . You Know its wrong, stop thinking about yourself, grab your nads, and lets get this lame asz union out-a-here!

 

[TWU informer]

So what you are saying is that I am not allowed to have an Opinion or express said Opinion unless I have a plan as to run a Union or I have to have a plan to run for office in the current Union ? You're also saying if I don't think and act just like you that I can not express my Opinion of Elected Leaders breaking many cardinal rules of being said leader ? When I see contradiction and complete turn about thrown out here in public forum instead of it just being a rumor that I heard from someone around the system that I know, I am not allowed to call a B.S. on it if I can't offer an alternate solution to fix everything we have wrong in our current Union ?

I'm not sure if I can follow the rules you have suggested. When an Elected Leader gets on here and bashes the hell out of people that are doing the best they can possibly do considering the situation I am going to call a B.S. When an Elected Leader gets on here bashes the hell out of the same people for trying to follow suggested professional advice of Experienced Legal Counsel instead of someone that has read something on the net and works on live aircraft for a living I am going to call a B.S. If that is being a Chronic Complainer then so be it.

Talk about putting words in someone else's mouth....That's funny crap there.

So you want your opinion here, but because they are elected their opinions must be muted?

And many of them offer solutions while you offer none.

Talk about calling BS, yes you are nothing more than a chronic complainer, unwilling to lead yourself but complain about others who do, unwilling to work on a solution yourself but complain about others that do.

We should just nickname you CC for "Chronic Complainer"

 

[Bob Owens]

It's the fragmentation, factions and alternate agendas I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with 514's Team so why would I run.

Please tell us what you think this "alternate agenda" is.

I always thought that Unions were about maximizing pay,benefits and improving working conditions.

It seems that the agenda here has become save Tulsa from the reality of the marketplace regardless of the cost.

When BDL closed and every one of its mechanics were laid off did we hear people like you say "What can we give up to save BDL?" No. The mechanics at BDL either had to relocate or hit the streets, thats the airline industry. The fact is when we came into this industry we knew it was an industry where we would be subject to layoffs and thats why we established a seniority system. We knew that no staion, wehether it was BDL, JFK or TUL was immune and that the company had the right to conduct business wherever and whenever they wanted.Why should Tulsa the rules be changed to accomodate Tulsa and not BDL? So you are saying that anyone outside of Tulsa should be willing to take the hits as they come but everyone should take hits before Tulsa gets touched.

So I keep hearing about my "agenda" so if maximizing pay and benefits is an alternate agenda what is the primary agenda? Saving Tulsa at any cost to the entire profession?

You are the one who said that this isnt 1934 or 1966 and that things have evolved-well? The industry has moved towards outsourcing a lot of their low end OH, aren't you the one who is trying to fight evolution by giving away pay, benefits and workrules(for everyone, not just those doing the work that may be outsourced) to stop evolution??

You are such a fool. You have given AA the best of both, you gave them the quality and control effeciencies that doing work in house enables and you have given them the lowest labor costs in units in the industry.

They didnt even have a place to send the narrowbodies because capacity is tight throughout the industry. This isnt 2005 either. UAL is slowly bringing work back in house because the shortage of mechanics is driving MRO costs up and the quality is poor. And her we are giving away the store to keep work that they had no place to send it to anyway. In the meantime now they have the language so over the next 6 years they can search all over the world to find places, at least UAL limited NBs to be done in the US, our language has no restrictions.

So come 2018 with the widebodies outsourced and the company now has a dozen or so places lined up to do all the narrowbody work what are you going to force us all to give up then? At what point would you say NO?

 

[Hopeful]

You are the one who said that this isnt 1934 or 1966 and that things have evolved-well? The industry has moved towards outsourcing a lot of their low end OH, aren't you the one who is trying to fight evolution by giving away pay, benefits and workrules to stop evolution??

People, like AC, were under the illusion that AA would actually outsource all or most of line maintenance simply because of a cozy past. They still cannot process the fact that AA made it clear the disadvantage is OH.
Look at it this way,,,,Every legacy carrier that has gone through BK and emerged, shed 1000s of jobs related to OH and outsourced. They, for the most part, kept their line mechanics and operations in tack..With the main exception being NWA..
Same goes for the Southwest's and Jetblues of the world.

Wait until the layoffs commence, and AC and others start keeping stats as OH numbers decrease.

This scenario coupled with a push to change unions has got them YES folks reeling there in T town!

 

[Bob Owens]

People, like AC, were under the illusion that AA would actually outsource all or most of line maintenance simply because of a cozy past. They still cannot process the fact that AA made it clear the disadvantage is OH.
Look at it this way,,,,Every legacy carrier that has gone through BK and emerged, shed 1000s of jobs related to OH and outsourced. They, for the most part, kept their line mechanics and operations in tack..With the main exception being NWA..
Same goes for the Southwest's and Jetblues of the world.

Wait until the layoffs commence, and AC and others start keeping stats as OH numbers decrease.

This scenario coupled with a push to change unions has got them YES folks reeling there in T town!

Its a little more complicated than that. None of our competitors had OSMs. This put them at a huge disadvantage, even in BK because how do you take a guy making $37/hr at lets say UAL SFO, cut him down to $20/hr and expect anything out of him? At the time there was plenty of surpluss AMT labor out there and plenty of available MRO space as the industryy was still reeling from 9-11. We had introduced OSMs (SRPs) starting in 1995, our competitors couldnt wait years to realize the savings so they pretty much had to outsource it and there was plenty of excess capacity in the MRO world and AMT labor at the time. AA already had the best of both worlds, cheap in house mechanics and in house control, the guys who outsourced were simply trying to compete.

I dont think that the layoffs will be that severe, after all the work has to be done and people are still leaving the industry faster than they are coming in. The number of people employed at AA will contine to decline but attrition would likely cover most of the reduction. They could easily lose 4000 by 2018. Then they will spin this and say how they saved jobs, (by ruining all of them).

Managements objective here was to have us all work for less. Ream laid it out several months ago when he came through JFK and spoke to Chuck and I. He kept saying how they wanted to save jobs but in order to do that we all had to work for less. We told him that we needed financial relief and if we didnt get it he would not get what he needs from the line. If he pays us bottom of the industry just to keep all the OH in house he could expect bottom of the industry performance from the line. Well he,with some help from the International and Tulsa stuck us with bottom of the industry pay, it's up to the guys on the line to prove us right or wrong.

What this all boils down to is Ream used BK to generate fear in Tulsa and Title II to punish us (especially the line) for rejecting the 2010 deal.

 

[Bob Owens]

.

I don't have a problem with 514's leaders

Hmm, and you call me a Flip Flopper, they all said were against the 2010 TA but in favor of the 2012 Concessions, who flip flopped?

So I have to wonder, why were they against the 2010 TA? It obviously wasnt the concessions, so whats left? The line premium?

We saw first hand, even during BK, when the company offered anything to the line, Tulsa said if the Line gets it and they dont then its a deal breaker.

So Tulsa's leaders were willing to accept any concession, for the promise of saving jobs in Tulsa, as long as the line didnt get anything to bring them closer to their peers.

 

[AC Tynker]

Talk about putting words in someone else's mouth....That's funny crap there.

So you want your opinion here, but because they are elected their opinions must be muted?

And many of them offer solutions while you offer none.

Talk about calling BS, yes you are nothing more than a chronic complainer, unwilling to lead yourself but complain about others who do, unwilling to work on a solution yourself but complain about others that do.

We should just nickname you CC for "Chronic Complainer"

LOL I have to give you that one, that is funny. I guess I had that coming after catching and addressing your bi-polar moments on here in the past. I'm sure you have been sitting and waiting. Like I said I have no plan of how it should go nor do I need to have one to comment on Non Unity and Local Leaders trying to form factions that are addressed as "Cornerstone Cities & AFW". Complaining as you are addressing it would be if I were complaining about how our Union works etc which I am not. I am addressing Elected Leaders Morales and actions. I would go out on a limb and guess there is not much more one could add to what it takes to be a Leader or to be Loyal to an Organization that you work for. If someone publicly loathes and totally disagrees with who they work for I would think it would be hypocritical to keep working for them and Gladly taking their money when there is nothing you can do to mold it into what you think it should be.

I still consider you insignificant and think that you have no idea of what true Leadership is. You do make a good promoter and a good researcher, I won't discount your abilities for that.

 

[AC Tynker]

Hmm, and you call me a Flip Flopper, they all said were against the 2010 TA but in favor of the 2012 Concessions, who flip flopped?

So I have to wonder, why were they against the 2010 TA? It obviously wasnt the concessions, so whats left? The line premium?

We saw first hand, even during BK, when the company offered anything to the line, Tulsa said if the Line gets it and they dont then its a deal breaker.

So Tulsa's leaders were willing to accept any concession, for the promise of saving jobs in Tulsa, as long as the line didnt get anything to bring them closer to their peers.

I voted against our negotiator that tried to bring that TA back and I voted against that TA also. Different time and Different people, bad example. The FlipFlop You were tagged for in part is your Don't Like Tulsa so much... err I mean I have no problem with Tulsa they tried to help us in 2010 and the newer TWU is bad for our profession they are tearing it apart ...err I mean Lets Change from within TWU need another chance for a Super Local. All examples are not exact comments before you start but they long stories short.

 

[TWU informer]

LOL I have to give you that one, that is funny. I guess I had that coming after catching and addressing your bi-polar moments on here in the past. I'm sure you have been sitting and waiting. Like I said I have no plan of how it should go nor do I need to have one to comment on Non Unity and Local Leaders trying to form factions that are addressed as "Cornerstone Cities & AFW". Complaining as you are addressing it would be if I were complaining about how our Union works etc which I am not. I am addressing Elected Leaders Morales and actions. I would go out on a limb and guess there is not much more one could add to what it takes to be a Leader or to be Loyal to an Organization that you work for. If someone publicly loathes and totally disagrees with who they work for I would think it would be hypocritical to keep working for them and Gladly taking their money when there is nothing you can do to mold it into what you think it should be.

I still consider you insignificant and think that you have no idea of what true Leadership is. You do make a good promoter and a good researcher, I won't discount your abilities for that.

 

[Just the Facts II]

Mistakes? I have not made mistakes I am aware of. My opinion? You mean an opinion I make by identifying myself and stating facts compared to your alias posting personal attacks?

A bit narcissistic aren't we Ken? You know you can get help for that.

 

[swamt]

There's an AMFA informational meeting coming up this Sat Sep. 8th in Tulsa. I would encourage any and all to go get your questions answered in person. You guys on here that keep posting lies and misinformation need to go just to see how AMFA is ran. The members run AMFA. There will be AMFA National officers there to answer any questions. With cell phones now days AMFA will not lie to you guys like the TWU and the teamsters are. Seham will be there I believe, and will answer the questions concerning the UAL contract that the IAM let the company farm out all their maint while they are trying to put that off onto AMFA. He will also address the NWA fiascoe, as well as the teamsters lies of "we will force the company to open the contract" Nope, no can do.

Don't take it from me or anyone else out here in cyberland. Goto the meeting and get your answers in person. From what I understand there will be regular mechs from other AMFA represented carriers as well as non-AMFA represented carriers that was once AMFA and now with one of the other unions trying to get in at AA.
And for all you that have questions about non-licened mechs. There will be some on hand to answer any of your concerns.

Supposively the TWU has been on the AA property since 1946. Now they are very, very cozy with the company. It's time for change for the AA mechs and related. Get involved and take control of your union instead of being told what is good for you. You the mechs, will run your own union with AMFA...

 

[Anomaly]

There's an AMFA informational meeting coming up this Sat Sep. 8th in Tulsa. I would encourage any and all to go get your questions answered in person. You guys on here that keep posting lies and misinformation need to go just to see how AMFA is ran. The members run AMFA. There will be AMFA National officers there to answer any questions. With cell phones now days AMFA will not lie to you guys like the TWU and the teamsters are. Seham will be there I believe, and will answer the questions concerning the UAL contract that the IAM let the company farm out all their maint while they are trying to put that off onto AMFA. He will also address the NWA fiascoe, as well as the teamsters lies of "we will force the company to open the contract" Nope, no can do.

Don't take it from me or anyone else out here in cyberland. Goto the meeting and get your answers in person. From what I understand there will be regular mechs from other AMFA represented carriers as well as non-AMFA represented carriers that was once AMFA and now with one of the other unions trying to get in at AA.
And for all you that have questions about non-licened mechs. There will be some on hand to answer any of your concerns.

Supposively the TWU has been on the AA property since 1946. Now they are very, very cozy with the company. It's time for change for the AA mechs and related. Get involved and take control of your union instead of being told what is good for you. You the mechs, will run your own union with AMFA...

I agree with SWAMT, finally. The meetings at AMFA are run completely by the members. In fact, a membership meeting is much like this board. The one phrase you will hear more often that all others is "they lied". Unfortunately, when confronted with fats, this is all these individuals have left. Again, much like this board.

As for the chief Seeham circus clown, it is interesting you select him to give you the facts about UAL? He may have represented the company, but certainly never worked for any airline. His firm did little to help us other than provide a life time supply of excuses on why they could do nothing for us. The entertainment value in listening to more may be worthwhile.

The Teamsters never did that. They just came in, and methodically started picking up the pieces. I appreciate the two contrasts between the IBT and amfa. Organization vs Chaos.

Enjoy the amfa circus.

 

[TWU informer]

ibt is now irrelevant. All you have is name calling, lies, and personal attacks. That is what we have had here at AA with the TWU since 1947. Not much longer though.