TWU Chapter 11 - AA 1113 Filing

[DallasConehead]

Judge Lane to amend all contracts

Judge Lane will not "amend" any contracts, he will either grant or deny a request to do so. The arguments’ presented by the lawyers will persuade his decision making.

Great idea to vote No and push for "11th hour of the 29th day" so we can extract the companies "best offer".

$2.55 per hour line premium and keeping your pension will be looking really good soon enough.

Aircraft mechanics are pretty smart when it comes to fixing airplanes. Other then that, not very smart at all. The Vote No coalition has cost me $$ immediately and in the end may have cost me my pension. No one can tell what would have happened had the agreement been voted in. Now these guys want to push the envelope again with another No Vote, that is ignorant and foolish.

 

[Birdman]

Aircraft mechanics are pretty smart when it comes to fixing airplanes. Other then that, not very smart at all. The Vote No coalition has cost me $$ immediately and in the end may have cost me my pension. No one can tell what would have happened had the agreement been voted in. Now these guys want to push the envelope again with another No Vote, that is ignorant and foolish.

So any time you get out voted by a 2 to 1 margin, are you always the genius or just in this case? I believe there is nothing left of the horses carcass that you and others continually beat. I will wait to see what is presented before I, a no voter, admit the error of my way.

 

[TWU informer]

So any time you get out voted by a 2 to 1 margin, are you always the genius or just in this case? I believe there is nothing left of the horses carcass that you and others continually beat. I will wait to see what is presented before I, a no voter, admit the error of my way.

May not be a failure on your part. Your representation has a duty to not keep you in the dark about the pitfalls of any negative potential you might face, and not to allow emotional leaders control the information unchallenged. But out of fear, your leadership failed to protect your interest by providing pertinent information, In this case, Politics and Due Collection trumped rational thinking. and now they scramble as if it was a shock and suprise. And they are happy to allow you or anyone else to take the blame.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

As I am not familiar with the process, would either of these be possibe?
1- TWU agrees to a contract with AA for a number of years enableing them to exit BK quickly (as long as the other unions agree also).
2- Judge awards AA concessions but they are temporary and a contract must be negotiated to exit BK.

I guess the questions are does AA need permanent contracts with their unions to exit BK? And is a judge's decision permanent or temporary until permanent contracts can be agreed upon?

 

[FWAAA]

As I am not familiar with the process, would either of these be possibe?
1- TWU agrees to a contract with AA for a number of years enableing them to exit BK quickly (as long as the other unions agree also).

That's certainly a possibility. But what's the real likelihood that the members of all three unions vote to approve what are expected to be concessionary agreemnts? As others have posted, it's probably a lot easier to let the judge abrogate the contracts and for AA to impose its terms than it would be to vote for concessions again.

2- Judge awards AA concessions but they are temporary and a contract must be negotiated to exit BK.

While there is a provision for AA to ask the judge to impose tempoary paycuts, I don't think that's going to happen. Typically, companies that are running very short on cash when they file Ch 11 ask for those temporary imposed paycuts. With AA's approx. $4 billion, the need for emergency imposed paycuts is not as necessary.

I guess the questions are does AA need permanent contracts with their unions to exit BK? And is a judge's decision permanent or temporary until permanent contracts can be agreed upon?

It's possible for AA to exit CH 11 without getting new long-term contracts, but that wouldn't make any sense. By filing Ch 11, AA now has the power to ask the judge to abrogate (essentially, cancel) the contracts and that would enable AA to impose its terms on the emplyees.

 

[skydrol]

May not be a failure on your part. Your representation has a duty to not keep you in the dark about the pitfalls of any negative potential you might face, and not to allow emotional leaders control the information unchallenged. But out of fear, your leadership failed to protect your interest by providing pertinent information, In this case, Politics and Due Collection trumped rational thinking. and now they scramble as if it was a shock and suprise. And they are happy to allow you or anyone else to take the blame.

Ok Informer I have been trying to figure out your point for the last month ? I am guessing that you are saying that the TWU cannot change no matter who is president of whatever local ? I do not understand the attacks on Bob, since he is the only one who shares info i can see why you are as disgusted as the rest of us. I am thinking your tirade is a goad to try to get the international to remove him from office again since i cannot figure another motive. The way I see it is the crap TA was voted down for these reasons not a u tube video, it was dividing each group line and overhaul against each other it was a contract the international should of never brought forth.

1. overhaul was against because of weekend language and line got a bump in pay rather than a lump sum, was not thrilled with the idea that people under 50 would loose their retirement medical and had concerns that once out numbered they would reap what they sewed.

2. Line voted it down because of the age thing where retirement medical was gone under 50 years of age and was concerned about new people hired, out voting see above reasons, , There was no cola language for high cost of living cities.

These are the sticklers i believe so enlighten me please why you are so pissed off at Bob ?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

That's certainly a possibility. But what's the real likelihood that the members of all three unions vote to approve what are expected to be concessionary agreemnts? As others have posted, it's probably a lot easier to let the judge abrogate the contracts and for AA to impose its terms than it would be to vote for concessions again.


While there is a provision for AA to ask the judge to impose tempoary paycuts, I don't think that's going to happen. Typically, companies that are running very short on cash when they file Ch 11 ask for those temporary imposed paycuts. With AA's approx. $4 billion, the need for emergency imposed paycuts is not as necessary.


It's possible for AA to exit CH 11 without getting new long-term contracts, but that wouldn't make any sense. By filing Ch 11, AA now has the power to ask the judge to abrogate (essentially, cancel) the contracts and that would enable AA to impose its terms on the emplyees.

Thanks for the great response.

 

[skydrol]

Ok Informer I have been trying to figure out your point for the last month ? I am guessing that you are saying that the TWU cannot change no matter who is president of whatever local ? I do not understand the attacks on Bob, since he is the only one who shares info i can see why you are as disgusted as the rest of us. I am thinking your tirade is a goad to try to get the international to remove him from office again since i cannot figure another motive. The way I see it is the crap TA was voted down for these reasons not a u tube video, it was dividing each group line and overhaul against each other it was a contract the international should of never brought forth.

1. overhaul was against because of weekend language and line got a bump in pay rather than a lump sum, was not thrilled with the idea that people under 50 would loose their retirement medical and had concerns that once out numbered they would reap what they sewed.

2. Line voted it down because of the age thing where retirement medical was gone under 50 years of age and was concerned about new people hired, out voting see above reasons, , There was no cola language for high cost of living cities.

These are the sticklers i believe so enlighten me please why you are so pissed off at Bob ?

I realize you have a life but all i hear is chirp chirp chirp from the crickets ?

 

[DallasConehead]

So any time you get out voted by a 2 to 1 margin, are you always the genius or just in this case? I believe there is nothing left of the horses carcass that you and others continually beat. I will wait to see what is presented before I, a no voter, admit the error of my way.

The problem with your reasoning as a "no voter" is that if there is a consensual agreement there is little chance of abrogation. Your logic would leave everyone out on the limb sawing the branch off behind. It would be wise to make decisions based on logic rather then emotion.

70. If the pilot’s contract is abrogated, would it lessen the impact on our members?

Typically if the bankruptcy proceedings get to the point of where the company is requesting the abrogation of an agreement of a particular group, unless the other groups have a consensual agreements their agreements would also be subject to the judge ruling to abrogate.

 

[enough already]

I realize you have a life but all i hear is chirp chirp chirp from the crickets ?

Only 2 hours to respond to your diatribe and your complaining?

 

[skydrol]

Only 2 hours to respond to your diatribe and your complaining?

Is that what you have ? Common do some discussion or just sit by the sidelines whatever ?

 

[skydrol]

Is that what you have ? Common do some discussion or just sit by the sidelines whatever ?

if you ever read responses from your HERO you would see the same responses applies

 

[Birdman]

The problem with your reasoning as a "no voter" is that if there is a consensual agreement there is little chance of abrogation. Your logic would leave everyone out on the limb sawing the branch off behind. It would be wise to make decisions based on logic rather then emotion.

:blink: ....I meant I was a no voter on the 2010 t/a. I have offered no opinion on any upcoming vote except to say it will be meaningless, as the conditions of the compAAny's proposals will likely be accepted by the judge. BTW, my vote would not be counted anyway since I'm a dues objector. My judgement in regard to what the compAAny proposes will reflect the realities bases on comparisons with what we would have gained by approving the 2010 t/a and what we will lose. The beating of the dead horse is rooted in emotion and not logic. I will wait for facts to emerge.

 

[Buck]

:blink: ....I meant I was a no voter on the 2010 t/a. I have offered no opinion on any upcoming vote except to say it will be meaningless, as the conditions of the compAAny's proposals will likely be accepted by the judge. BTW, my vote would not be counted anyway since I'm a dues objector. My judgement in regard to what the compAAny proposes will reflect the realities bases on comparisons with what we would have gained by approving the 2010 t/a and what we will lose. The beating of the dead horse is rooted in emotion and not logic. I will wait for facts to emerge.

If you hurry you can change your evil ways, recover your member in good standing qualifications and participate with hardly any expense to you or yours.

Do you hate horses?

 

[Buck]

Rumor: TWU Local 514 Shop Steward elections. Ballots will not be issued for Stores, Fleet Service and Building Cleaners. All questions are directed to the local Fleet Service president.

Do not ask for any reference to my source, because I have been sworn to secrecy.