TWU or IAM in a Merger

[necigrad]

"IAM represented Fleet service workers at US AIRWAYS enjoy an IAM National Pension Plan benefit of $78.30 a month for each year of future service." Well, that's at best misleading.

What if the plan actually flops like other pension plans have?

To the first part, you're right using one take of logic. Applying that logic I'll take every penny of additional pay you've received past what was promised in the CBA in effect when you were hired. Things change. What a defined benefit pension is is a guarantee BASED ON THE AGREEMENTS FOR THE RELEVANT YEARS. If, as happened, schedules are reduced, then future years of credit are reduced. Based on your dumbass logic if the benefit was INCREASED then we wouldn't see the increase either.

To an extent you make a valid point about the plan becoming insolvent. IF the plan goes under you're entirely right. Of course the same can happen with Social Security, and we're not professional investors, so the same can happen to our 401(k) as well, in addition to the risk of a fund in the 401(k) being run into the ground. There is no surefire retirement plan. The most secure way is to just put money in the bank and not get a decent or useful return, hoping that the bank doesn't go under when you've got more then $200,000 (or whatever the limit currently is) in the accounts.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

The last thing I'm going to say on the issue is that the Negotiation team has at all times considered what is best for the membership. We all realize that we can't make everyone happy but we are all in this for the right reason.

P. Rez

Fair enough Pat. Nobody can argue about that!

regards,

 

[Kev3188]

Perhaps a one time choice, maybe a yearly choice

A one time choice seems like the way to go. IIRC, AS did this in one of the recent CBA's.

Barring that, the emphasis should be both on increasing the company's 401k contribution, and improving the match.

Tim,

The last thing I'm going to say on the issue is that the Negotiation team has at all times considered what is best for the membership. We all realize that we can't make everyone happy but we are all in this for the right reason.

P. Rez

That should be the minimum requirement to even getting in the room!

I'd also hope that your team does a careful analysis of the company's "ask," and realizes that the difference between a DB and DC plan can-and should- be used as leverage for securing other items for the membership.

 

[Tim Nelson]

A one time choice seems like the way to go. IIRC, AS did this in one of the recent CBA's.

Barring that, the emphasis should be both on increasing the company's 401k contribution, and improving the match.



That should be the minimum requirement to even getting in the room!

I'd also hope that your team does a careful analysis of the company's "ask," and realizes that the difference between a DB and DC plan can-and should- be used as leverage for securing other items for the membership.

Kev,

The idea of a choice of retirement options by our members is most important and, imo, diversifying into other options other than the paternal IAM pension plan. The contention will probably come in at with TR, the INTL rep, who will try to lean the negotiation team on putting any retirement increases into the IAM pension plan and then sell it as "we boosted your future benefit back over $50 a month". That is of course risky since the IAM pension trustees can taketh again if they so choose.

regards,

 

[freedom]

To the first part, you're right using one take of logic. Applying that logic I'll take every penny of additional pay you've received past what was promised in the CBA in effect when you were hired. Things change. What a defined benefit pension is is a guarantee BASED ON THE AGREEMENTS FOR THE RELEVANT YEARS. If, as happened, schedules are reduced, then future years of credit are reduced. Based on your dumbass logic if the benefit was INCREASED then we wouldn't see the increase either.

To an extent you make a valid point about the plan becoming insolvent. IF the plan goes under you're entirely right. Of course the same can happen with Social Security, and we're not professional investors, so the same can happen to our 401(k) as well, in addition to the risk of a fund in the 401(k) being run into the ground. There is no surefire retirement plan. The most secure way is to just put money in the bank and not get a decent or useful return, hoping that the bank doesn't go under when you've got more then $200,000 (or whatever the limit currently is) in the accounts.

agreements .... bah , i was in the CLASS A group for the pension .... do you know what the pension group did ??? rather than give EVERYONE a pension cut , they took me from class A and slotted me into CLASS B ....... they didn't make the B and C people take cuts , they made ME take a cut ................. ME !!!!!!!!!

i will gladly take a 401K any day , while i may lose money , it will be of my own doing and not anothers , as to fraud ,at least there's someone to go after , but with the way our current pension is , i can be robbed of my promised pension LEGALLY ...

 

[700UW]

Technically you didnt lose anything, because it was a future benefit not accrued yet.

 

[freedom]

Technically you didnt lose anything, because it was a future benefit not accrued yet.

Do you know how sad that sounds ..............

if that's going to be the IAM's defence of the pension , then they might as well roll out the red carpet for the TWU ...

 

[737823]

Do you know how sad that sounds ..............

if that's going to be the IAM's defence of the pension , then they might as well roll out the red carpet for the TWU ...

700UW is the Overspeed of the IAM he is waterboy and puts a spins on everything, the IAM can do no wrong according to him.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

700UW is the Overspeed of the IAM he is waterboy and puts a spins on everything, the IAM can do no wrong according to him.

Josh

+1

 

[necigrad]

agreements .... bah , i was in the CLASS A group for the pension .... do you know what the pension group did ??? rather than give EVERYONE a pension cut , they took me from class A and slotted me into CLASS B ....... they didn't make the B and C people take cuts , they made ME take a cut ................. ME !!!!!!!!!

No, they did no such thing. You've been notifed that should you (as in the workgroup you) choose to continue at the same contribution level it will be as a lower plan. Yes, your future contribution will be as a part of a different plan (or class as you said, not sure which is correct), but it's a choice. You haven't taken one cut. If you're not satisfied with what the NC does to address this you (again the collective you) can vote the contract down. If a TA is voted down I feel EXTREMLY confident that the NC will want to know what the membership had problems with. We still have a choice, nothing has been forced on us.

If you don't like that McDonalds still has those uniforms for you.

 

[freedom]

I'll skip working at the golden arches thank you .

You forgot the other alternative , we vote for the TWU and viola no more IAM pension .

However I don't really mind the IAM , id hate to part ways with them over something so simple as the ablity of the IAM workers to determine their own retirment planning .

 

[700UW]

Freedom,

Did you actually care when you voted for the last CBA and you were a cheerleader for it and you helped cause the layoff and outsourcing of your brothers and sisters.

Where was your outcry then?

No IAM pension and NO 401k match either.

So once again you screw yourself and your coworkers, some union member you are.

 

[Black Magic]

Freedom,

Did you actually care when you voted for the last CBA and you were a cheerleader for it and you helped cause the layoff and outsourcing of your brothers and sisters.

Where was your outcry then?

No IAM pension and NO 401k match either.

So once again you screw yourself and your coworkers, some union member you are.

Or should it be the IAM's fault for putting that bum outsourcing contract for the membership to vote on in the first place?!

I guess thats the beauty of being in the IAM circle..nobody to hold accountable. The leadership can blame the membership for voting it in and the membership can blame the leadership for negotiating the deal. Its setup that way on purpose. When first and foremost people realize the IAM is business and doesn't care about outsourcing small cities as long as the majority of dues keep rolling in, everything becomes clear as glass.

 

[robbedagain]

FREEDOM, ASK THE AA FOLKS ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE THE TWU UNION..... BETTER YET CHECK IT OUT... FROM WHAT THEY USED TO TELL ME BEFORE THEY LOST THEIR JOBS THE IAM LOOKED BETTER THAN THEIR OWN UNION
WHY DONT U GET FIDELITY 401K AND HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF UR CHECK GOING IN TO IT? IVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR YRS NOW EVEN THOUGH ITS JUST 10% GOING IN

 

[Tim Nelson]

FREEDOM, ASK THE AA FOLKS ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE THE TWU UNION..... BETTER YET CHECK IT OUT... FROM WHAT THEY USED TO TELL ME BEFORE THEY LOST THEIR JOBS THE IAM LOOKED BETTER THAN THEIR OWN UNION
WHY DONT U GET FIDELITY 401K AND HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF UR CHECK GOING IN TO IT? IVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR YRS NOW EVEN THOUGH ITS JUST 10% GOING IN

IMO, most likely scenario is no vote, but something along the lines of the CWA/IBT association.

regards,