TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA
- Thread starter 1airborne
- Start date
Any questions about how the IBT is doing over at UAL could be directed to GT Davis over on the UAL threads. He could share some of his IBT experiences with you. Best to hear from both sides.
Anomaly
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The hater of all things union GT Davis.
You know he was a pain in amfa's ass too until they were thrown out, then all of a sudden he loved them. Read his writings with a grain of salt and realize he writes more fiction than Steven King or swamt. Just fact check his rants. While your at it, look up his kids thesis on the evils of labor unions for a laugh.
http://www.worldcat.org/title/labor-union-regulation-reform-mitigation-of-criminal-activity-in-american-labor-union/oclc/794980574
Daddy is so proud..... 🙄 🙄
I kind of wonder if any of the posters here on this forum are truly AMT's. We sit here and bash each other to no end. I can not see how a AMT who believes in his craft can support the Teamsters. We all agree we need to get rid of the TWU. Since last weeks filing many of you decided to vote for the Teamsters because AMFA failed to properly file with the NMB. OK so we all make errors in judgment from time to time. Does this mean we are to be isolated because we are human? The fact that AMFA will not be on the ballot has absolutely no affect on AMFAs intent to represent the M&R group at AA or any other airline. Ask yourself these questions with an open mind.
Does AMFAs constitution change in any way since the filing?
Does AMFA no longer hold its officers accountable?
Does AMFA not represent the same people it did before the filing?
Does AMFA no longer vote for their International officers?
Does AMFA no longer allow observers in negotiations?
Did AMFAs union dues change since the filing?
So what has changed in AMFAs philosophy since last weeks filing?
Nothing is my answer. What is yours?
So you want to take your anger out on AMFA by punishing yourself in the long run. Supporting the Teamsters is not the answer. Do you really know what the Teamsters is all about? Have you read any parts of their constitution? We all hate the TWU but the Teamsters has the same structure as the TWU. If you disagree read their constitution.
They appoint international officers. Same as the TWU.
They pay them triple digit salaries. Same as the TWU.
They make deals without membership approval. Same as the TWU.
Where they differ from the TWU is they charge more in union dues.
Do you know how much more?
TWU is 2 times base pay.
Teamsters is 2.5 times your base pay PLUS all premiums. (All inclusive)
They assign members to locals. They do not create new locals for new memberships.
We will NOT have our own Maintenance locals. TWU does.
Who will be the president of our local? Do you know?
Maybe a warehouse stock clerk or a bus driver.
Will we be voting on our ATD officers? NO!
They too are appointed. Same as the TWU.
So you want a change but yet you support a union that is the same as the TWU and charges more money in dues and will not give us our own locals. Is this what you really want?
So now comes the question. What do we do to rid ourselves of the Industrial unions?
Well first of all if there will be a vote do not vote for the TWU or the Teamsters. Do not vote for NO Union representation. So what does that leave us? The only logical choice for our class and craft.
The "WRITE IN" choice. NMB Representation Manual Ref. 13.203 says:
Internet "Voting.
After accessing the website, the voter enters his/her assigned Access Code. When the voter’s identity is confirmed, a ballot screen will appear for the election in which he/she is eligible to vote. The incumbent, the applicant, the intervenor, the “write-in” option, and the “no representative” option will be listed in descending order."
As you can see the NMB allows a WRITE IN option.
We as a collective group can excersise our right to choose who we feel is best for our profession. I suggest to everyone that is truly interested in a Class and Craft union and wants to rid themselves of the Industrial unions to use this option and Write In AMFA or Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association which ever the NMB allows. If we get enough Write In votes we can finally rid ourselves of the TWU and the Teamsters can take a hike. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the NMB manual especially section 13 and 14 which covers the voting process.
http://www.nmb.gov/r...tion-manual.pdf
Take into consideration of all the oragnizers that spent many hours away from their families and spent their own money for all of us. These guys traveled to small out stations on their own time to get as little as 20 cards.
They believed in the fight to rid ourselves of the money sucking Industrial unions. The least you can do is appreciate the hard work and see what their hard work will bring us in rewards if we Write In AMFA on the ballot.
Do not let this opportunity slip us by. It is our future, lets work together and make it right. Vote AMFA on the Write In when you get your ballot.
Does AMFAs constitution change in any way since the filing?
Does AMFA no longer hold its officers accountable?
Does AMFA not represent the same people it did before the filing?
Does AMFA no longer vote for their International officers?
Does AMFA no longer allow observers in negotiations?
Did AMFAs union dues change since the filing?
So what has changed in AMFAs philosophy since last weeks filing?
Nothing is my answer. What is yours?
So you want to take your anger out on AMFA by punishing yourself in the long run. Supporting the Teamsters is not the answer. Do you really know what the Teamsters is all about? Have you read any parts of their constitution? We all hate the TWU but the Teamsters has the same structure as the TWU. If you disagree read their constitution.
They appoint international officers. Same as the TWU.
They pay them triple digit salaries. Same as the TWU.
They make deals without membership approval. Same as the TWU.
Where they differ from the TWU is they charge more in union dues.
Do you know how much more?
TWU is 2 times base pay.
Teamsters is 2.5 times your base pay PLUS all premiums. (All inclusive)
They assign members to locals. They do not create new locals for new memberships.
We will NOT have our own Maintenance locals. TWU does.
Who will be the president of our local? Do you know?
Maybe a warehouse stock clerk or a bus driver.
Will we be voting on our ATD officers? NO!
They too are appointed. Same as the TWU.
So you want a change but yet you support a union that is the same as the TWU and charges more money in dues and will not give us our own locals. Is this what you really want?
So now comes the question. What do we do to rid ourselves of the Industrial unions?
Well first of all if there will be a vote do not vote for the TWU or the Teamsters. Do not vote for NO Union representation. So what does that leave us? The only logical choice for our class and craft.
The "WRITE IN" choice. NMB Representation Manual Ref. 13.203 says:
Internet "Voting.
After accessing the website, the voter enters his/her assigned Access Code. When the voter’s identity is confirmed, a ballot screen will appear for the election in which he/she is eligible to vote. The incumbent, the applicant, the intervenor, the “write-in” option, and the “no representative” option will be listed in descending order."
As you can see the NMB allows a WRITE IN option.
We as a collective group can excersise our right to choose who we feel is best for our profession. I suggest to everyone that is truly interested in a Class and Craft union and wants to rid themselves of the Industrial unions to use this option and Write In AMFA or Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association which ever the NMB allows. If we get enough Write In votes we can finally rid ourselves of the TWU and the Teamsters can take a hike. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the NMB manual especially section 13 and 14 which covers the voting process.
http://www.nmb.gov/r...tion-manual.pdf
Take into consideration of all the oragnizers that spent many hours away from their families and spent their own money for all of us. These guys traveled to small out stations on their own time to get as little as 20 cards.
They believed in the fight to rid ourselves of the money sucking Industrial unions. The least you can do is appreciate the hard work and see what their hard work will bring us in rewards if we Write In AMFA on the ballot.
Do not let this opportunity slip us by. It is our future, lets work together and make it right. Vote AMFA on the Write In when you get your ballot.
Anomaly
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good point, but now ask yourself this too....
Does this little blunder from amfa create an example of what to expect in the future? Take a look at the disasters they have created at other airlines and you will most likely and accurately guess YUP !.
This type of failure by amfa is exactly what you can expect from the association. Now ask yourself, is it worth it?
Constitutions are not contracts with employers, nor do they generate wages or benefits. At the end of the day, ask yourself what really matters most for you and your family. The union constitution, or the negotiated contract? Can you trust amfa now that they showed you how badly they can f**k up a simple thing like a deadline? Mostly, look at the blame they are assigning for their little mistake. Can you trust an association who will not own their errors?
We learned at UA and removed amfa after ONLY 4 YEARS and 9 MONTHS of experiencing their disastrous representation . Think about that while you take the time to vote.
amfa FAILED
To answer some of your responses.
Does this little blunder from amfa create an example of what to expect in the future?
Irrelevant. Since all unions make blunders. TWU in my experience is the worst. How are things at UAL/CAL moving along? Over three years with the IBT and still no seniority integration and no JCBA in place. CAL hires off the street and UAL has guys on Furlough. IBT allowing this to happen. How many all Aircraft Maintenance locals does UAL/CAL have? Joe Prisco made a video in a meeting explaining the split locals in SFO. Guys being ASSIGNED to a LAX local and work in SFO because IBT needs the dues money in LAX. Great representation. Sounds like a blunder to me. AMFA would not allow this because their officers are held accountable.
You keep mentioning about ASSOCIATION. Do you feel a association is not a union?
I do not know where you are going with that one.
IBT is a brotherhood, IAM is a association, ALPA is a association, AFA is a association, APA is a association. Should I Google a list of unions that have the word association in them?
So who are they blaming as you stated?
I read Louie Key's statement and a letter came my way from Don Rodgers. They both state the NMB rules locked AMFA out from filing. I did not read that they blamed the NMB for following their own rules. A set back yes but they did not blame the NMB or the organizers. So once again we will follow the NMB rules by using the "WRITIE - IN" option. That will put AMFA on the ballot and we will vote them in. This was the plan from the beginning. This is what the members at AA wanted in the first place. So it will happen as per the NMB rules that are in place.
So you removed AMFA in 4 years and 9 months. You also removed the IAM. Now you have the IBT and from what I read you guys are unhappy with them as well. So who is next to represent you when you remove the IBT? Back to IAM or back to AMFA or maybe you should try the TWU. We had great success with them since 1946. Proven track record. BTW if you go with the TWU you will get a automatic pay raise. Your dues will be lower. Only 2 times your base pay instead of the current 2.5 times all inclusive.
So has AMFA been the only Union or Association as you keep referring too that has made mistakes? NO. We all make mistakes and we move on. Funny how we never hear any bad information coming out of SWA or Alaska. Now why is that?
Class and Craft is the way to go. AMFA is the only one for us. You just hate AMFA for personal reasons but fail to open your eyes to the Industrial unions way of screwing over the skilled members of the M&R group.
And we should believe you are telling facts? From behind an alias? Just saying!
I refuse to indorse the write-in option as long as the appeal option remains an option. AMFA has until the 7th to file thier appeal.
Any reasonable person knows that submitting the necessary paperwork and cards in time under such conditions was an impossibility.
Shame on those who would blame AMFA.
To believe AMFA failed would be akin to following the twisted logic of the NAZI's or the Communists or any other organization that feels that it is ok to steal democracy away from free people. Shame on you anomaly.
Any reasonable person knows that submitting the necessary paperwork and cards in time under such conditions was an impossibility.
Shame on those who would blame AMFA.
To believe AMFA failed would be akin to following the twisted logic of the NAZI's or the Communists or any other organization that feels that it is ok to steal democracy away from free people. Shame on you anomaly.
D
DallasConehead
Guest
Of course, never their fault, the rules are clear and known to all, the amfa leadership failed to follow the rules, now they want a pass, and they're going to spend there members dues to fight it in court, which remains to be seen..
Now, go throw the nazi and commy card out there. Shame on you for not being responsible.
The appeal process is a lengthy one. If AMFA focuses on the appeal and too much time goes by we will lose out on informing the membership about the Write In option. Once the NMB determines there is sufficient interest for a vote it will be about one week when they mail out the voting instructions with PIN numbers. At this point you do not want a voter to vote without realizing he has that option instead of seeing one union or the other. I am not sure if AMFA is appealing but we need to prepare for a election if it happens and use the Write In option regardless which direction the appeal process goes. Do you understand now how we have to exercise all our options. The Write In has a better chance than appealing to a government entity that can drag this out past the election voting deadline.
No shame on you DallasConehead for going along with a sham that would screw the American Airlines Mechanic and Related class and craft out of the ability to have a fair and free election. Enjoy the day comrade
robbedagain
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1aa can you folks do a write in and also appeal is that possible?
In my opinion one should have nothing to do with the other. You need to send an email to Amfa national and ask them. They usually answer your emails in the same day.
D
DallasConehead
Guest
Sham: an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine
Clearly, the current situation is not a sham but in fact the law of the land. If THAT is a sham to you, I suggest you seek to change the law.
Additionally, when faced with the facts that are counter to your claim, your basic is instinct is to engage in childish name calling.
Is it any wonder that with folks such as your self supporting the amfa movement, that other you may want to join in don't do so?
