TRAVIS
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Rumor back EAST is AMFA was just a little under 600 cards short (RUMOR ONLY)!
TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA
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TWU informer
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And what was the NMB final certified number of voters on the list?
Anomaly
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This may be more than a rumor...
What I heard last night was that amfa sent out as many organizers as they could to Tulsa to gather as many last minute cards as possible. Apparently the supporters were begging people to sign because they knew they did not have enough to file.
Wonder who will get the blame for this?
D
DallasConehead
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I am fairly sure the organizers nor the national will take credit for this if its true. Instead it will be labeled as a conspiracy.
This would also explain why there was no filing prepared to go.
Anomaly
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I love this whimsical little world of deniability that you amfa guys live in. Very easy to create your own facts.
The CAL/UA furlough/hire argument is old, but unfortunately one you will understand very soon. We still have two agreements. Until we agree with the company to combine these two agreements, this is just the way it will be. CAL will continue to hire off the street and UA will continue to recall furlough. Sorry you can't understand it. The split Local makes no difference to me either. As far as we are concerned here in SFO, our Local meetings are held about 7 minutes away from from the maintenance base and terminal.
For the record, I do not look down on amfa for making a mistake, but rather for lying. It appears evident that the association did not collect enough cards to file in the first place. Why else did they move back their intended file date? Why did the amfa reps scramble to gather more cards on the day they would have been due?
amfa has a history of playing by it's own rules and then creating lies to cover up their shortcomings.
In our very first amfa contract at UA, amfa crossed out union in favor of association. From what I understand amfa wants to be as far away from the other unions as possible. Do you disagree?
Dude...seriously??
http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=292646
Press Release: AMFA Files With the NMB for Representation Election at American Airlines—Company, Teamsters Block Intervenor Option
...the National Mediation Board (NMB) thwarted the efforts of American Airlines mechanics to place the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) on the ballot. Although the AMFA filed the necessary documents electronically with the NMB on Tuesday afternoon and delivered original documents Wednesday, officials at the NMB applied a technical rule effectively stripping away the right of any union to obtain intervenor status in the representation election.
Throughout the entire article amfa shifts blame between the NMB and AA. They talk about a "surprise" move by the IBT, but who on this board did not expect the IBT to file the last two months? Was key living under a rock? He must have been because catching the 4pm dedaline was not the only thing that was screwed up.
The filing application was done by facimile rather than original delivered copy and the final amfa filing lacked an authorized signature. The lawyer signed instead of Louie Key. The application should have included the cards in order to be valid. The cards did not show up until next day. Why???
I guess when your National Office address is 14001 E. Iliff Ave, Suite 217 • Aurora, Colorado 80014, and you are trying to conduct time sensative business in Washington, you are bound to run in to complications. Why didn't amfa move it's organizing HQ to DC to be ready for the "surprise" filing? Why didn't they have the application already prepared with Key's signature? Why didn't amfa simply file when they said they would?
amfa uses tactics like filing late on Friday to allow themselves extra time to gather cards over the weekend. The IBT is much more methodical, calulating, and careful. They filed early in the day and provided the necessary notifications to the TWU, AA, and AMFA. The way these campaigns are being run is a very good determination on the type of representation you would recieve from each. Teamsters are thorough in their organizing and representation.
Yup.... you got it right. We were IAM for some 50 years or so before we realized they could not take us further. We were with amfa for less than 5 years before we realized they were taking us backwards.
swamt and a few others are very eager to post that UA mechanics are unhappy with the IBT. If true, where is the campaign?
AMFA CERTIFIED AIRLINES
The CAL/UA furlough/hire argument is old, but unfortunately one you will understand very soon. We still have two agreements. Until we agree with the company to combine these two agreements, this is just the way it will be. CAL will continue to hire off the street and UA will continue to recall furlough. Sorry you can't understand it. The split Local makes no difference to me either. As far as we are concerned here in SFO, our Local meetings are held about 7 minutes away from from the maintenance base and terminal.
For the record, I do not look down on amfa for making a mistake, but rather for lying. It appears evident that the association did not collect enough cards to file in the first place. Why else did they move back their intended file date? Why did the amfa reps scramble to gather more cards on the day they would have been due?
amfa has a history of playing by it's own rules and then creating lies to cover up their shortcomings.
In our very first amfa contract at UA, amfa crossed out union in favor of association. From what I understand amfa wants to be as far away from the other unions as possible. Do you disagree?
Dude...seriously??
http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=292646
Press Release: AMFA Files With the NMB for Representation Election at American Airlines—Company, Teamsters Block Intervenor Option
...the National Mediation Board (NMB) thwarted the efforts of American Airlines mechanics to place the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) on the ballot. Although the AMFA filed the necessary documents electronically with the NMB on Tuesday afternoon and delivered original documents Wednesday, officials at the NMB applied a technical rule effectively stripping away the right of any union to obtain intervenor status in the representation election.
Throughout the entire article amfa shifts blame between the NMB and AA. They talk about a "surprise" move by the IBT, but who on this board did not expect the IBT to file the last two months? Was key living under a rock? He must have been because catching the 4pm dedaline was not the only thing that was screwed up.
The filing application was done by facimile rather than original delivered copy and the final amfa filing lacked an authorized signature. The lawyer signed instead of Louie Key. The application should have included the cards in order to be valid. The cards did not show up until next day. Why???
I guess when your National Office address is 14001 E. Iliff Ave, Suite 217 • Aurora, Colorado 80014, and you are trying to conduct time sensative business in Washington, you are bound to run in to complications. Why didn't amfa move it's organizing HQ to DC to be ready for the "surprise" filing? Why didn't they have the application already prepared with Key's signature? Why didn't amfa simply file when they said they would?
amfa uses tactics like filing late on Friday to allow themselves extra time to gather cards over the weekend. The IBT is much more methodical, calulating, and careful. They filed early in the day and provided the necessary notifications to the TWU, AA, and AMFA. The way these campaigns are being run is a very good determination on the type of representation you would recieve from each. Teamsters are thorough in their organizing and representation.
Yup.... you got it right. We were IAM for some 50 years or so before we realized they could not take us further. We were with amfa for less than 5 years before we realized they were taking us backwards.
swamt and a few others are very eager to post that UA mechanics are unhappy with the IBT. If true, where is the campaign?
AMFA CERTIFIED AIRLINES
-
Alaska Airlines -
Southwest Airlines
- United and Continental Airlines
- American Airlines
You know Anomaly I do not have the time to spend here discussing our different views and opinions. I am in the middle of trying to get AMFA on the Write In ballot selection. I would like to say that you are fortunate enough not to have been represented by the TWU and do not have to deal with AA and their cozy arrangement with the TWU in screwing us over. You had the opportunity to rid the IAM and AMFA. Do not push your unfortunate experiences on to us at AA by telling us how bad AMFA is or how good the IBT is. You obviously have a personal issue with AMFA. Let us decide for ourselves. Our guys know about the IBT and their similarities with the TWU. This is exactly what we are trying to get away from. The Teamsters already admitted to us in informational meetings that they will charge us more dues, assign us to a local already established because even though they will be collecting more money in dues they do not want to give us our own local. They already admitted that the top officers are all appointed and business agents as well. All this is a mirror image of the TWU, They will appoint a ATD officer without a vote. So we will have less representation with the IBT than we currently have with the TWU. Guys here want to be separated from the ramp. IBT has 1.4 million members and they are not all in the M&R group. Another similarity to the TWU. So why pay more money for less? I wish you guys the best at UAL/CAL. But do us a favor here at AA, Do not tell us how to run our union affairs at this crucial time. You had your experiences with several unions and now it is our turn for us to decide what is best for us under AA management. Good luck in getting your house in order at UAL. I decided to speak to a few ramp personnel and they tell me that word out in their work group is that the IBT is starting to go after them here at AA. If this is true and they succeed we will be no different now under the TWU or IBT. So we will be status quo but with a new name on the door. This is what we want to rid ourselves of. AMFA is the only union that can keep us separated and can focus all efforts and finances on the members it represents. TWU and the IBT have to share the wealth.
Of course comrade how could I be so foolish as to question the law of the land.
AMFA could have rented a room in Washington DC so that it could run over to the NMB and fill out the application and turn in the cards in the less than six hours that were available.
Or it could have perhaps rented an F-16 from nearby Carswell AFB to deliver the application and cards in time.
24 hrs, 12 hrs, even 8 hrs to prepare to submit necessary paperwork a waste of valuable NMB time.
Forgive me for believing an organization should have at least 24 hours to submit necessary paperwork to ensure that the mechanics class and craft get a fair and democratic election to pick their choice in representation. I am afraid I have been a bad party member for thinking in such a way.
Comrade I have a better idea lets allow someone other than the mechanics and related to choose who shall represent us-that way the process can be over in a much shorter period of time. Perhaps we could have the whole issue behind us in less than a day.
Anomaly
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Psssssst......According to 1AA, amfa has had over 40 years to submit the necessary paperwork. 🙄
Anomaly
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Hey friend, I get it and my intention is NOT to put any of you fellow AA mechanics down. You are about 7 years behind us in a place no right conscience UA mechanic would ever want a fellow wrench turner to be. We were down in the dumps also. The industry and bad corporate decisions put us all in the same dark place. I am truly saddened that you all are where we once were. It took us a while to get out and we made some costly mistakes along the way.
I know we all have a right to our opinion, but you and I shared this opinion for more than a moment. I am not trying to dissuade you from amfa because of a personal grudge, I am simply trying to get you all to realize the damage this group can do to you. You think you found bottom with the TWU, just wait until amfa tosses you a shovel. They really can take you lower if you are not careful. Google amfa's past and a trail of their failures is an easy read to find.
Like I said in an earlier post; a pie in the sky constitution is no substitution for professional bargaining. The Teamsters have the money and clout to hire the best FOR YOU! They have worked out very good for us so far.
TWU informer
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That money and clout was non-existent when Hostess Corporation went to Bankruptcy. In fact, the mighty Teamsters were first to give concessions, and then when the Bakers Union struck, the Teamsters crossed their picket line.
Reality, never matches the Teamsters campaign rhetoric
And at United Airlines, your heave checks have been signed away to China. You are nothing more than a stooge paid to post on this forum, but the facts dont even come close to your post.
For all the ones that support the Teamsters and hate the TWU so much please think about this.
We all agree we want to get rid of the TWU.
Here are some of the reasons and I am sure you all agree.
We do not want to be tied to the rampers.
We do not want a union that will appoint officers.
We want accountability from the decision makers.
We do not want back door deals.
We want to be able to vote on all important issues.
We want the ability to recall our officers if they screw up.
We want our Dues money to stay with the AMT group.
We want to control our own decisions that affect us.
We want a union that serves only the members it represents.
There is nothing stopping the Teamsters in their constitution from going after the rampers at AA. If they succeed then we will have them again to deal with. You see how seperate locals really worked for us here at AA. The company again will say here is X amount of $$ we will give you as a group. The union will then have to divi it up as they see fit. Again tied to the rampers with another Industrial union. If you think this will not happen you are naive to the fact that Industrial unions are nothing but $$$$ generating organizations.
Does this sound like the TWU?
Does this sound like the Teamsters?
Has anyone read the constitution of the TWU and the Teamsters?
They are very similar. So what will you get with the Teamsters?
You will have the same thing we have right now with the TWU.
You will have to fork up more money out of your pockets to get a mirror image of the TWU. The one thing you will NOT get with the Teamsters that you will get with the TWU is NO MAINTENANCE LOCALS.
They will appoint local representatives (Business Agents). They will assign you to an already existing local. Is this what you really want?
Here are the existing locals that the Teamsters will assign us too.
DFW- local 745 4,500 members.
HOU- local 19 2,400 members. This will be the Tulsa Local. In Texas? WTF?
LAX- local 856 6.900 members.
MIA- local 769 11,000 members.
NYC- local 210 9,200 members.
ORD- local 781 4,000 members.
STL- local 618 2,300 members.
Do these numbers look like we can have our own representation?
Teamsters brag they have the money.
Well lets look at the LM-2 for 2011
Teamsters have $212,000,000 in assets.
AMFA has 1,400,000 in assets.
Teamsters have liabilities of 74 million
AMFA has liabilities of $400,000.
Teamsters memberships 1.3 million
AMFA memberships 2.700
So yes AMFA is smaller and has less money but look at how much
money the Teamsters spends on YOU as a member vs AMFA.
Teamsters= $162
AMFA= $535
Why is this? Because AMFA only represents the M&R group. The money stays with us. On the other hand the Teamsters have to share the wealth to all the other groups,
Not to mention the huge salaries of the Appointed International Officers. Sounds like the TWU to me. Dont you think?
AMFA's two biggest locals are locals 11 and local 18
Combined they have $2 million in assets.
Local 11's membership count averages $1,200.00 per member.
Local 18's membership count averages $1,200.00 per member.
Yet the Teamsters can only spend $152 per member. Numbers do not lie.
AMFA has Maintenance locals already set up.
Here they are with projected membership figures.
DFW local 11 2,500 members
NYC local 1 900 members
LAX local 3 550 members
MIA local 6 800 members
ORD local 4 950 members
TUL local 12 4,000 members
And yes you will elect ALL officers for each local. There is NO assigning of locals or business agents. You will vote on your ATD director. You have a say by voting. Can you say the same for the TWU or Teamsters?
This is why I encourage you to put aside last weeks events with the NMB filing and stay focused on AMFA's philosophy as a Class and Craft Union.
If and when you get your ballot use the WRITE IN option allowed by the NMB rules.
Check the box and write in AMFA.
We all agree we want to get rid of the TWU.
Here are some of the reasons and I am sure you all agree.
We do not want to be tied to the rampers.
We do not want a union that will appoint officers.
We want accountability from the decision makers.
We do not want back door deals.
We want to be able to vote on all important issues.
We want the ability to recall our officers if they screw up.
We want our Dues money to stay with the AMT group.
We want to control our own decisions that affect us.
We want a union that serves only the members it represents.
There is nothing stopping the Teamsters in their constitution from going after the rampers at AA. If they succeed then we will have them again to deal with. You see how seperate locals really worked for us here at AA. The company again will say here is X amount of $$ we will give you as a group. The union will then have to divi it up as they see fit. Again tied to the rampers with another Industrial union. If you think this will not happen you are naive to the fact that Industrial unions are nothing but $$$$ generating organizations.
Does this sound like the TWU?
Does this sound like the Teamsters?
Has anyone read the constitution of the TWU and the Teamsters?
They are very similar. So what will you get with the Teamsters?
You will have the same thing we have right now with the TWU.
You will have to fork up more money out of your pockets to get a mirror image of the TWU. The one thing you will NOT get with the Teamsters that you will get with the TWU is NO MAINTENANCE LOCALS.
They will appoint local representatives (Business Agents). They will assign you to an already existing local. Is this what you really want?
Here are the existing locals that the Teamsters will assign us too.
DFW- local 745 4,500 members.
HOU- local 19 2,400 members. This will be the Tulsa Local. In Texas? WTF?
LAX- local 856 6.900 members.
MIA- local 769 11,000 members.
NYC- local 210 9,200 members.
ORD- local 781 4,000 members.
STL- local 618 2,300 members.
Do these numbers look like we can have our own representation?
Teamsters brag they have the money.
Well lets look at the LM-2 for 2011
Teamsters have $212,000,000 in assets.
AMFA has 1,400,000 in assets.
Teamsters have liabilities of 74 million
AMFA has liabilities of $400,000.
Teamsters memberships 1.3 million
AMFA memberships 2.700
So yes AMFA is smaller and has less money but look at how much
money the Teamsters spends on YOU as a member vs AMFA.
Teamsters= $162
AMFA= $535
Why is this? Because AMFA only represents the M&R group. The money stays with us. On the other hand the Teamsters have to share the wealth to all the other groups,
Not to mention the huge salaries of the Appointed International Officers. Sounds like the TWU to me. Dont you think?
AMFA's two biggest locals are locals 11 and local 18
Combined they have $2 million in assets.
Local 11's membership count averages $1,200.00 per member.
Local 18's membership count averages $1,200.00 per member.
Yet the Teamsters can only spend $152 per member. Numbers do not lie.
AMFA has Maintenance locals already set up.
Here they are with projected membership figures.
DFW local 11 2,500 members
NYC local 1 900 members
LAX local 3 550 members
MIA local 6 800 members
ORD local 4 950 members
TUL local 12 4,000 members
And yes you will elect ALL officers for each local. There is NO assigning of locals or business agents. You will vote on your ATD director. You have a say by voting. Can you say the same for the TWU or Teamsters?
This is why I encourage you to put aside last weeks events with the NMB filing and stay focused on AMFA's philosophy as a Class and Craft Union.
If and when you get your ballot use the WRITE IN option allowed by the NMB rules.
Check the box and write in AMFA.
D
DallasConehead
Guest
I get it.. But here's reality. I would bet, Amfa didn't have enough cards, they are being pretty quiet about it. Therefore there wont be enough write in ballots. Thus, every ballot that is written in takes away from the IBT, check mate, TWU wins...
TWU informer
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Think again! A three way race is easier to win than a two way. Line AMT's will control the outcome. Tulsa will split between the three unions with and it will be a near even three way split. Tulsa split three ways with 1/3rd going AMFA, and if the Line AMT's write in AMFA, then AMFA wins. Your math is off because you are a pessimist. Do something for a change instead of predicting a negative outcome and doubting the card count, if we get a ballot stand up to the dictators and make history for a change. This is why you will never see a ballot in your hand. You can create the negative outcome by believing it will happen and following through to insure you are right.
TRAVIS
Veteran
AMFA has made some Bad Mistakes. Calling a strike at NWA after making threats of a strike to the company for months. Giving the company (NWA) time to train and place replacement workers (SCABS) in hotels around the system months in advance of the strike. We all know how this went for the NWA AMT’s (AMFA said this was a CONSPIRACY NOT AMFA’s FAILURE).
AMFA failed to get the cards last campaign (AMFA said this was a CONSPIRACY PADDING THE NUMBERS BY TWU / AA).
AMFA failed to get the cards last campaign (AMFA said this was a CONSPIRACY PADDING THE NUMBERS BY TWU / AA).
AMFA failed to file with the NMB per the rules this campaign (AMFA said this was a CONSPIRACY BY IBT / AA).
AMFA was aware IBT filed at US Airways and as supporters say they had the cards. AMFA should have filed or been ready to file that day as they knew IBT would also file soon at AA. If AMFA had the cards this was a BIG MISTAKE by AMFA and if they did not have the support by card count as always a CONSPIRACY to blame someone else works fine for them to save face for lack of supporters.
IF the AA AMT’s want the TWU OUT! Think Hard Before You Waste A Vote!
Have a good one my UNDER PAID & BEATEN AMT BROTHERS.
Have a good one my UNDER PAID & BEATEN AMT BROTHERS.
VOTE IBT AND HELP YOUR US AIRWAYS BROTHERS !
