TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA

[swamt]

Good point using his performance at AT. Your statement "Even the AT guys say he was an idiot" must be another one of your many many lies. Afterall, if he did so poorly representing the AT IBT members, why then did they vote in the SLI agreement by 94%?

Thats right, 94% agreed with his legal advise and direction and you say he is an idiot?



Along with spelling, apparently math is also a weak point for you. The UA merger was announced May 2010. How does that make over 4 years from todays date? Just another of yor lies exposed.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about with the merger nego's. AT guys had to vote for SLI as their attorney was going backwards the more he tried to put off the AT membership voting on it. That's right, the more he talked, the more the AT guys were getting taken away, and this includes previous agreements already agreed to by SWA and AT in their personal agreements. The AT guys saw exactly where their idiot attorney was taking them if he was to continue on. The membership forced the teamsters as well as their stubborn headed attorney to bring it out for a vote. The AT guys calling him an idiot is not a lie, I have talked to a lot of them personally and they say a lot more and worse than what I have posted. As far as the 4 year comment, I meant to say going on 4 not over 4, my bad, but it has been over 3 years and still no JCBA...

 

[bigjets]

I would much rather go no union, (how can a union leader represent their members when they are getting life time perks from the company) but would like to see AMFA at AA rather then the IBT or the TWU, My statement "AMFA is done at AA" comes from the fact that my fellow mechs are so dissappointed with how AMFA balled up the filing, and walking around saying they're done!.

AMFA should have filed May 20th like they said they were going to.Then the IBT would have had to scamble. I'm thinking of voting No Representation. At least when the company screws me, I won't have to pay to hear "It's in the contract brother" I'm going to gamble that we will be treated like Fedex and Delta mechs.At least i won't have TUL voting down a pay raise because they will have to work weekends.

The non-union mechs have it better then us and they don't have to pay the union.

I have nothing but the highest regards for the AMFA organizers, job well done, in an uphill battle.

 

[Anomaly]

You obviously don't know what you are talking about with the merger nego's. AT guys had to vote for SLI as their attorney was going backwards the more he tried to put off the AT membership voting on it. That's right, the more he talked, the more the AT guys were getting taken away, and this includes previous agreements already agreed to by SWA and AT in their personal agreements. The AT guys saw exactly where their idiot attorney was taking them if he was to continue on. The membership forced the teamsters as well as their stubborn headed attorney to bring it out for a vote. The AT guys calling him an idiot is not a lie, I have talked to a lot of them personally and they say a lot more and worse than what I have posted. As far as the 4 year comment, I meant to say going on 4 not over 4, my bad, but it has been over 3 years and still no JCBA...

Liar....

Here is what you said about it in Feburary 2012

I actually hope it's not in our future. But I am not willing to vote something in just because AT and SWA threaten arbitration like some mechanics are doing, which is pathetic. I like where you posted that it won't be the company's decision, and I bet they hate that. Also, you are correct, if we goto arbitration it will in fact only be between AMFA and AT which is exacally what it should be. I too will be fine with whatever the arbitrador hands us. You do make a very valid point, why did the company bend over backwards and so quickly give them everything? Where the company screwed up was pleasing only 3-400 employees, instead of 1700 "current" employees. I talked to a brand spankin new probie the other day, and he was in shock how the company was catering to the AT guys over the present employees as well. The reason I mention this is that the companies actions are being seen by all employees, and now all the new hires are seeing how the company is taking care of non-SWA employees better than the current long term employees. Speaks volumes to the outsiders looking in... When it get's here I will still be a "NO" vote!!

Basically throughout the whole thread you blame the company and the IBT for bending the SWA mechanics over a barrel. No complaints of idiot Teamster attorney's. Your biggest problem with the IBT attorney is that he held on to the threat of arbitration and forced a better deal fir the AT mechanics. They voted 94% in favor. Just like now, you felt your knowledge and experiance in legal issues was far superior to any attorney and you argued against his opinion of the outcome of a neutral decision.

I have gone back and read many of the SWA/AT threads and have not seen any truth to the statement that you created, "Even the AT guys say he was an idiot".

Now in this latest post we find you backpeddling your way out of this. It is no longer all the AT guys but now, "I have talked to a lot of them personally". Your lies are less and less believable.

 

[swamt]

Liar....

Here is what you said about it in Feburary 2012



Basically throughout the whole thread you blame the company and the IBT for bending the SWA mechanics over a barrel. No complaints of idiot Teamster attorney's. Your biggest problem with the IBT attorney is that he held on to the threat of arbitration and forced a better deal fir the AT mechanics. They voted 94% in favor. Just like now, you felt your knowledge and experiance in legal issues was far superior to any attorney and you argued against his opinion of the outcome of a neutral decision.

I have gone back and read many of the SWA/AT threads and have not seen any truth to the statement that you created, "Even the AT guys say he was an idiot".

Now in this latest post we find you backpeddling your way out of this. It is no longer all the AT guys but now, "I have talked to a lot of them personally". Your lies are less and less believable.

Once again you have no clue of who I have talked to. Your postings show nothing. The AT guys would have had a better deal in the very beginning (as far as pay outs and top out dates) they did in fact lose money by the attorney stalling just to try and get back at the SWA guys. In the beginning the co did offer all monies up front, in the end they lost the monies up front as well as receiving top out a lot sooner rather than much later. But of course you know all about what happened at the table as if you were there. Fact is Anomaly, you don't know squat. I still stand behind my post that Josh acted and was an idiot as do the AT guys that I have talked with in person. LOL You still have no clue...

 

[JABORD]

Sorry to say ken , but it looks like AMFA is DOA in ord. Guys are not happy with how they handled things.

Fortunately, knowing Paul here at ORD, I can confirm that this wack statement does not represent the opinion of the folks I speak with and to come on the Forum and trash the AMFA drive is an insult to many of us. It's irresponsible to come on here like some kind of authority when no attempt is made by many people to join the fight other than sign a card. Those of us that are more engaged and refuse to accept apathy know that it takes quite a bit more effort. Many here at ORD 'get it' and I will definitely help this guy 'find it'.
Write It In = AMFA

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I would much rather go no union, (how can a union leader represent their members when they are getting life time perks from the company) but would like to see AMFA at AA rather then the IBT or the TWU, My statement "AMFA is done at AA" comes from the fact that my fellow mechs are so dissappointed with how AMFA balled up the filing, and walking around saying they're done!.

AMFA should have filed May 20th like they said they were going to.Then the IBT would have had to scamble. I'm thinking of voting No Representation. At least when the company screws me, I won't have to pay to hear "It's in the contract brother" I'm going to gamble that we will be treated like Fedex and Delta mechs.At least i won't have TUL voting down a pay raise because they will have to work weekends.

The non-union mechs have it better then us and they don't have to pay the union.

I have nothing but the highest regards for the AMFA organizers, job well done, in an uphill battle.

BigJets

Not sure where you got your information, but being one of the AMFA OEC organizers here at AA,
there was never a plan to file on May 20th. We did have a plan to file on the 31st of may.
Many here and at stations around the system wanted to file on the AMT Day. Then it was pushed to the 14th of June. Because some of the cards signed early on had started to expire. Since the drive was not started the same day at all stations across the system.

AMFA itself did not screw up, our cards as you were told by whom ever you signed a card with were sent to Dallas, where they were accounted for. Checked against the datbase we the organizers have kept for 10yrs+.

If the mechanics of AA had signed cards in an overwelming number we could of filed sooner. But it took so long to get cards having to battle what the TWU was saying about amfa as well as what was being said by the IBT. You had to be told over and over what happened at NWA, about how much money, what ever else all the AMT's here at AA kept coming to us for answers for since many here don't want to do their own research.
The 17th of May was a date that you might remember that anyone with recall rights would fall off the eligibility list.

There was a certain few stations that we calculated that may have had IBT support, so we never expected the IBT to file when the did. Since their drive started in June 2012.

The IBT's cards went to Washington since that is where their office is. That is also the headquarters of the organizers for the IBT which are paid. We did this on our own time and used some of our own money, to bring a class and craft union to AA. Just what did you do to help, besides just signing a card if that is what you did?

So when they decided to file they (IBT) were there. With us our cards were in the hands of the OEC in Dallas so upon notification of the filing of the IBT, we expected to have our cards in the following day. The paperwork was filed electronicly by the AMFA NEC the same day the NMB notified them of this. The cards were sent from Dallas to washington.

NMB ruled not to allow/accept AMFA cards since AA filed its paperwork same day which then killed the collection of cards for the IBT and gave the Organizers for amfa (us) until 4pm the same day to get our cards to the NMB.

When we filed in 2003 we just did not have enough cards due to the inflation numbers by the TWU/AA.
We missed it by 27 cards. So its our fault the mechanics at AA, since we did not have enough cards.

Don't blame AMFA, this is our doing. The organizers and the members of our class and craft here at AA.

Now its up to YOU and the rest of the AMT's at AA to decide if what you believe about the Union you want is true or not. Whether you want the TWU still or the IBT, or a class and craft union which represents the mechanics of AA. Aircraft/Facilities/Automotive.

 

[TWU informer]

That is true, IF AA AMT's wanted AMFA, then why not sign the cards in 90 days or less, file and get rid of the most docile union in the industry? Why wont AMT's take the time to learn about their profession, what is happening in this industry, and organized labor as a whole? Why not learn about the Constitutions and understand the structure instead of acting like ants in an ant hill that has been kicked over, as if they don't know what to do next? Most in Tulsa want to be spoon fed information and then blame someone else if change fails. Sad, but true. WE are our own worst enemy, yet we collectively blame someone or something else each time we get screwed over.

 

[xUT]

That is true, IF AA AMT's wanted AMFA, then why not sign the cards in 90 days or less, file and get rid of the most docile union in the industry? Why wont AMT's take the time to learn about their profession, what is happening in this industry, and organized labor as a whole? Why not learn about the Constitutions and understand the structure instead of acting like ants in an ant hill that has been kicked over, as if they don't know what to do next? Most in Tulsa want to be spoon fed information and then blame someone else if change fails. Sad, but true. WE are our own worst enemy, yet we collectively blame someone or something else each time we get screwed over.

Because they are lazy and stupid.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I would much rather go no union, (how can a union leader represent their members when they are getting life time perks from the company) but would like to see AMFA at AA rather then the IBT or the TWU, My statement "AMFA is done at AA" comes from the fact that my fellow mechs are so dissappointed with how AMFA balled up the filing, and walking around saying they're done!.

AMFA should have filed May 20th like they said they were going to.Then the IBT would have had to scamble. I'm thinking of voting No Representation. At least when the company screws me, I won't have to pay to hear "It's in the contract brother" I'm going to gamble that we will be treated like Fedex and Delta mechs.At least i won't have TUL voting down a pay raise because they will have to work weekends.

The non-union mechs have it better then us and they don't have to pay the union.

I have nothing but the highest regards for the AMFA organizers, job well done, in an uphill battle.

I would just like to point out that if you are talking about the 2010 T/A, I voted it down because there was no raise. Those of us in Tulsa would have gotten a one time lump sum payment. If you call that a raise then fine, but I don't.

 

[Vortilon]

I will write in AMFA without any doubts. Many of us have been waiting for this chance - for over 20 years, and we are not about to give up over another setback. The IBT and TWU are counting on the apathy of AMTs. They are both afraid of the AMTs at AA & US Air voting in the AMFA - grass roots style (no raid).

C'mon, all you fence sitters look at the re-hashed BS both the TWU and the IBT are pushing. It's not about how you the members are doing; for the union leaders, it's about how the union itself is doing, and the people sucking up your dues money. They take 15% +/- raises year after year, while your pay and benefits are at all time lows. Recently I saw the TWU post an excuse letter touting - how within two years the AA AMTs would be at or near the top of the industry in pay. Not a peep about SK pay and accrual, not a peep about amount of holidays, and holiday worked rate of pay. Not a peep about shift differential, not a peep about longevity pay. They were not even bragging about how we have lost not one, but two weeks of vacation, not to mention the amount of time to earn extra weeks has increased. You all know there is more on ID, and how did we lose PV days? Oh yeah, the TWU responded to that on their Q&A "no other airline has PV days". Nice, OK technically not referred to as PVDs - they call them "DAT" days - or day at a time. We really don't expect that from the jackwagons that are supposed to be representing us!

I would fully expect more of the same from the Teamsters; in fact worse, with plenty of evidence to confirm it.

The only logical choice, given the circumstances in any representation election scenario at AA/US Air M&R is the AMFA!

 

[paul1]

Fortunately, knowing Paul here at ORD, I can confirm that this wack statement does not represent the opinion of the folks I speak with and to come on the Forum and trash the AMFA drive is an insult to many of us. It's irresponsible to come on here like some kind of authority when no attempt is made by many people to join the fight other than sign a card. Those of us that are more engaged and refuse to accept apathy know that it takes quite a bit more effort. Many here at ORD 'get it' and I will definitely help this guy 'find it'.
Write It In = AMFA

yes many guys get it here at ord that the twu is going to be replaced. Hopefully amfa will get the write in vote, but I can tell you some of guys that wanted to go with amfa, seem to be talking a new tune. I have been pushing for amfa for over 20 years. Guys are worried about the write in vote splitting the teamsters and amfa vote leaving the twu in place.

If there is even going to be vote is another question, AMFA needs to get out a lot of info on this write in vote if it is going to work.

 

[enough already]

Even if it splits the votes, as long as the twu doesn't get 50+1%, there will be a runoff between whoever the top 2 are.

 

[1AA]

Considering how we all feel about the TWU if they get near 50% of the votes casted then yes they have a chance on remaining our represented union. Do you really think they will get that much support by the stroke of the ballot? AMFA on the Write In will be our best choice for representation. This will probably be our only shot at changing unions for the better. So going with the Teamsters or staying with the TWU is NOT for the better. I am so happy that the NMB gives us a choice other than the union that files and the incumbent. When the time comes you all know who to write in if you want to better our careers and professions. Pilots have their own craft union and so do the Flight Attendants. Now it is our turn of a lifetime to turn the tables on the industrial useless unions that have done nothing for us but take our dues money in exchange for concessions,lies and excuses.

WRITE - IN "AMFA"

 

[Kev3188]

That is true, IF AA AMT's wanted AMFA, then why not sign the cards in 90 days or less, file and get rid of the most docile union in the industry? Why wont AMT's take the time to learn about their profession, what is happening in this industry, and organized labor as a whole? Why not learn about the Constitutions and understand the structure instead of acting like ants in an ant hill that has been kicked over, as if they don't know what to do next? Most in Tulsa want to be spoon fed information and then blame someone else if change fails. Sad, but true. WE are our own worst enemy, yet we collectively blame someone or something else each time we get screwed over.

Well put.

Because they are lazy and stupid.

... And afraid; just as they've been conditioned to be for the last 25-30 years...

Oh yeah, the TWU responded to that on their Q&A "no other airline has PV days". Nice, OK technically not referred to as PVDs - they call them "DAT" days - or day at a time. We really don't expect that from the jackwagons that are supposed to be representing us!

WTF?

Is there any airline that *doesn't* have DAT days?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

No DAT vacation?

That is hard to beleive.