TWU Urges Governemtn to approve alliance..

[eolesen]

The deal that was first floated in 1997 had AA absorbing BA's US based employees, and vice versa in the UK.

If AA and BA were to pull back operations, I'd expect BA to be the one to pull back and use the LHR slots for something more lucrative for the JV (i.e. Asia or Middle East).

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----eolesen,------ "more lucrative"? " Middle East"? Like destinations AA can't, or won't, fly into? ----- Like Israel? Saudi Arabia? The Emirates?----- Let me point out! TWA flew to places like these, and made good money doing it! Helped start up "Saudia Airlines" in fact! ---- I was told that AA considered flying these routes just after the take over. "Briefly!", but just "briefly", before throwing the idea out! Didn't want their nice shinny Airplanes shot up with bullet holes!

 

[eolesen]

MCI, that might be, but do you really think that there is more demand for US-Saudi traffic than there is for UK-Saudi traffic?... How about US-Bahrain vs. UK-Bahrain? US-Egypt vs UK-Egypt?

I'm willing to bet there are far more expats from the UK working in those regions than there are US expats, and more transplants from those regions in the UK than in the US.

I'm sure TW made money to the Gulf when the majority of oil companies were US owned, but a lot has changed in the past 20 years.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI, that might be, but do you really think that there is more demand for US-Saudi traffic than there is for UK-Saudi traffic?... How about US-Bahrain vs. UK-Bahrain? US-Egypt vs UK-Egypt?

I'm willing to bet there are far more expats from the UK working in those regions than there are US expats, and more transplants from those regions in the UK than in the US.

I'm sure TW made money to the Gulf when the majority of oil companies were US owned, but a lot has changed in the past 20 years.

<_< ----- To answer your questions, I really don't know! And I realize time doesn't stand still! Would AA make as much $$ by letting someone else fly out of the UK, or would they make more by flying them selfs from the US? I don't pretend to be an expert in marketing. But a route from JFK to Bahrain, or anywhere else, to Bahrain, in these times, would seem mighty lucrative!!!--------- And believe me, I understand AA's reluctance to fly into places like that with that big "American" on the side of all their Aircraft. I worked on our "Beirut Special" (727) after It returned. :down: ------But sometimes, you have to stand up for the image you've been exploiting all these years!!!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This has nothing to do with TWU being "pro management". It's clear that they see things differently than the pilots do, and want AA to succeed in a difficult environment. The pilots don't seem to care whether or not the overall company does well or fails; they just want their 50% raise and to work less hours for more money.

Sounds to me like TWU sees the writing on the wall that these agreements are the future (or really the present in the case of UA/LH, DL/AF and NW/KL).

Don't you all want the company to survive so you can continue to bicker about pay and PUPs?

 

[MCI transplant]

This has nothing to do with TWU being "pro management". It's clear that they see things differently than the pilots do, and want AA to succeed in a difficult environment. The pilots don't seem to care whether or not the overall company does well or fails; they just want their 50% raise and to work less hours for more money.

Sounds to me like TWU sees the writing on the wall that these agreements are the future (or really the present in the case of UA/LH, DL/AF and NW/KL).

Don't you all want the company to survive so you can continue to bicker about pay and PUPs?

<_< --------Flyer, Have you ever heard of the concept of "diminishing returns"? That's exactly where the Union represented employees of AA are! :down:------ In other words, they have been putting more into the company, to insure it's survival, than they have been getting out, to insure the survival of their families!

 

[TWU informer]

This has nothing to do with TWU being "pro management". It's clear that they see things differently than the pilots do, and want AA to succeed in a difficult environment. The pilots don't seem to care whether or not the overall company does well or fails; they just want their 50% raise and to work less hours for more money.

Sounds to me like TWU sees the writing on the wall that these agreements are the future (or really the present in the case of UA/LH, DL/AF and NW/KL).

Don't you all want the company to survive so you can continue to bicker about pay and PUPs?

We could give up another 25% of our pay and this current management team would still ruin this airline.

How much should we give before management changes course and correct the failing plan?

I for one have come to believe that we best just get what we can before its over. I think the Pilots have a similar view and that is understandable. Unless you are an employee on the inside, I doubt you will grasp this sad but true fact.

 

[frontline]

I am an employee on the inside, and I refuse to concede overall defeat for our company just yet.

I certainly don't like everything the management has done, but to say they have ruined the airline is flat out false. Each side deserves credit where it is due, and AA execs should get credit for thing like keeping MRO in-house and successfully negotiating better terms with creditors (to say nothing of avoiding bk - with our concessions - and preserving the pension plan).

As for the alliances, they should all be approved. We need to be able to compete in a way that is fair, and since *A and SkyTeam have immunity, we should get it, too.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

<_< --------Flyer, Have you ever heard of the concept of "diminishing returns"? That's exactly where the Union represented employees of AA are! :down:------ In other words, they have been putting more into the company, to insure it's survival, than they have been getting out, to insure the survival of their families!

I've never said that was a fair proposition. If AA were raking in huge profits I would be first in line to support giving you the raises you deserve (and most AA employees do - I'm out there every week seeing you do an excellent job first hand).

Further to the topic of this thread, I think recent history has proven these alliances to be both good for the consumer and good for airlines. To that end, TWU has the foresight APA lacks; more revenue for AMR ultimately means a quicker return to profitability once the economy recovers.

 

[MCI transplant]

I've never said that was a fair proposition. If AA were raking in huge profits I would be first in line to support giving you the raises you deserve (and most AA employees do - I'm out there every week seeing you do an excellent job first hand).

Further to the topic of this thread, I think recent history has proven these alliances to be both good for the consumer and good for airlines. To that end, TWU has the foresight APA lacks; more revenue for AMR ultimately means a quicker return to profitability once the economy recovers.

<_< -----Flier, I've been through two bankruptcy's with my previous employer. But in this particular instance, I wouldn't use the word "foresight" in the same sentence with TWU!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

more revenue for AMR ultimately means a quicker return to profitability once the economy recovers.

And more rewards for the executives...

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

The execs are going to take what they can get, just like the rest of you. We have hashed and rehashed that discussion here many times, and I'll remind all that airlines execs (AMR included) are paid much less than their counterparts at similar-sized companies. Not saying that's how it "should be", but the reality is they have not been rewarded anywhere near as handsomely as the bankers, oilmen, etc.

And yes, I'll stand by my previous point: quicker return to profits means some actual money to fight over.

 

[Connected1]

Isn't this the thread about the TWU's support of American's ATI/JBA applications?

 

[Ralph]

Well, once again I have spent part of my morning deleting over a page of posts unrelated to the thread topic and handing out suspensions for namecalling and personal attacks. Pay close attention to the next sentence.

NOT EVERY THREAD IS ABOUT EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AT AMR CORPORATION. Suspensions are also being handed out for thread hijacking. Don't do it. If that is the only topic you are capable of discussing, please note that a fellow member has started a thread for that topic. Keep your comments there.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

CO got approval from DOT today. AA and BA can't be far behind.